I am not saying whether or not Magicwand's opinions are reasonable (at least I'm not trying to). I am saying that he may have a rational basis for achieving them. Herman and hyperpape's opinions about MW may have a rational basis as well, but I want to provide additional information about the situation: Namely, even factors outside of go can affect someone's opinion, and it's impossible to know what premises are being considered.

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be immersed

Well, that's true, but the point still holds for game data, as well. Maybe Magicwand has seen a set of games which lead to a conclusion that Japanese players typically perform poorly.

And maybe another person has seen a different set of games, which lead to a different conclusion.

You don't know what data someone is taken into account, whether it's about the game or not, so you can't tell if their decision is a rational one.

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be immersed

Yes. I am being a bit contradictory when I say:
1.) I will try to accept the view of another person, even if I don't understand them.
2.) I will not accept non-acceptance (eg. simply calling someone prejudice without trying to understand them).

I think that you're right. This is a bit of a contradiction. However, I can consider the costs that I pay with the different options that I have.

1.) If I do not accept another person's (possibly irrational) views on a topic, it is possible that I am wrong. If I am wrong, the person may actually be acting rational, and I may have stuff that I could otherwise learn about that particular topic from them.

2.) If I do not accept someone's view that another person is prejudice, what does it cost me? At most, I am wrong, and the person was correct that that person was prejudice. I missed out on learning that "this person is prejudice".

I am more interested in learning and understanding people's viewpoints on a variety of topics, rather than missing out on the potential fact that someone might actually be prejudice.

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be immersed

everyone have prejudice in them.
i certainly do too.
but i do not discriminate.

edit: and my ego is not FRAGILE!!!

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

While generally speaking there might be some truth to that, I think in this particular situation what you say does not quite apply.

When I see a poster making repeated comments of a controversial flavor, without giving any factual justification for his views, in spite of whole heated discussions developing about what he said - it seems reasonable to assume that he does not have any factual justification or he would have given it, He tries to give some justification, but these are very unconvincing, at least to me (and to others as well, it seems) - so I assume if he had better ones he would have shared them.

In addition, combined with his remarks about whom he considers a 'Korean' from another thread, and some other stuff he said, it is easy to draw a picture of a person who dislikes certain groups because of his upbringing and personal attitude rather than any objective factors. And this is based on his words and only that - which is all we have to judge each other by, in most cases.

And this is pretty much the opinion I have about him too.
What differentiates him from the usual group of of racist bigots is that he is up-front and honest about it. Also, he is aware of his views and their connotations, which is really respectable, in my eyes. Overall, we cannot be all the same, but as long as you are aware of your position and its shortcomings, and don't try to impose it on others too much, its not bad.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

OK. I apologize for criticizing the viewpoint that Magicwand has prejudice. Of course, people are free to think that way. I can sympathize with Magicwand's views. But I can also sympathize with the view that one cannot sympathize with his views.

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be immersed

Let's come back to Samsung Cup. Anyone has a prediction of next round?

Personally i hope the woman player and the Japanese one will be in. But Yamashita is facing Lee sedol, that would be a hard fight.

The most interesting game will be between Kong Jie and Lee Changho?

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长考出臭棋.

my reason for that post was to inform everyone how most koreans think (and i believe i am one of them)
it is a cultural difference that you have to understand.
as kirby's wife confirmed that now people's ideas are changing but in my generation it is what it is.

kirby: your understanding of other culture is more opened than others who lived in closed culture.
but you also must understand that they can not understand other culture because they lived in closed culture themselves. right?

to all:
i do not hate any group of people just because they are different.
but i do approach them differently depended on what their backgrounds are.
if anyone here think that they do not have any prejudice then you are a hypocrate.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Which post are you guys talking about? Sounds interesting, can I have a link? What special culture is that?

Is that because Kirby has a korean wife that he's easy to understand mw?

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长考出臭棋.

kim jisuk played 2 game sofar and he is going to play female player.
he will probably win easily and move to next round because he already beat her on first game.

my point is that somepeople are lucky that they faced easy opponent and some people like Changhao is unlucky that they are paired with strong player so knocked out.

does this sound fair?
i rather see two stonger players paired in later round than female or oldtimer's game.

NOW I HAVE A FACT TO BACK IT UP?

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

I would think it's fair, especially if the weaker are new, younger players. This kind of mix helps new faces to come out and get practise in world level competitions. The same reasoning for other 'weak groups' (women/non-Asians/etc...)

I'd rather not see 9 Dans monopolize the whole congress. Of course, at the end, semifinals/finals I want to see good matches.

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长考出臭棋.

My predictions:

Kong Jie < Lee Changho
Park Jiyeon < Kim Jiseok
Gu Li > Han Sanghoon
Heo Yeongho > Wang Tao
Lee Sedol > Yamashita Keigo
Zhou Ruiyang > Won Songjin
Park Yeonghun < Wang Lei
Choi Cheolhan > Park Junghwan

Lee Changho < Kim Jiseok
Gu Li < Heo Yeongho
Lee Sedol < Zhou Ruiyang
Wang Lei < Choi Cheolhan

Lee Changho 2 > 0 Heo Yeongho
Zhou Ruiyang 2 > 0 Choi Cheolhan

Lee Changho 2 > 1 Zhou Ruiyang

this is my prediction:

Kong Jie > Lee Changho Lee Changho is now what he used to be
Park Jiyeon < Kim Jiseok no question about this
Gu Li ?=? Han Sanghoon Han Sanghoon is very strong player and guli is unstable lately
Heo Yeongho > Wang Tao i dont know much about Wang tao.
Lee Sedol > Yamashita Keigo no comment
Zhou Ruiyang < Won Songjin Won Songjin is playing well lately
Park Yeonghun < Wang Lei Park yeonghun is very unstable lately
Choi Cheolhan < Park Junghwan Park junghwan is a rising star and i believe he already beat choi few games lately.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

My predictions:

Kong Jie < Lee Changho
Park Jiyeon > Kim Jiseok
Gu Li > Han Sanghoon
Heo Yeongho < Wang Tao
Lee Sedol > Yamashita Keigo
Zhou Ruiyang > Won Songjin
Park Yeonghun > Wang Lei
Choi Cheolhan > Park Junghwan

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长考出臭棋.

My predictions. Stars denote cases where I'm less sure. And yes, that's most of them...

* Kong Jie < Lee Changho
Park Jiyeon < Kim Jiseok
* Gu Li > Han Sanghoon
Heo Yeongho > Wang Tao
Lee Sedol > Yamashita Keigo
* Zhou Ruiyang > Won Songjin
* Park Yeonghun > Wang Lei
* Choi Cheolhan ? Park Junghwan

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Occupy Babel!

I understand this, as well as the rest of your post. And I agree with a lot of that, especially with your last sentence.
This is why I do have respect for you personally, in spite of the fact that I disagree with and strongly dislike some of your attitudes. You have these attitudes, but you also seem to have integrity, which is very rare in my experience. I will still criticize you when I feel like it, thought.

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- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

Here are my predictions:

Kong Jie > Lee Changho -- Lee Changho barely escaped in his game vs. Chang Hao.
Park Jiyeon < Kim Jiseok -- Kim Jiseok seems much stronger than Park Jiyeon.
Gu Li > Han Sanghoon -- Gu Li is not in top form, but it is tough to bet against him.
Heo Yeongho > Wang Tao -- Heo Yeongho qualified by beating Gu Li. Wang Tao is strong, but he lost to Yamashita Keigo.
Lee Sedol > Yamashita Keigo -- This will be fun to watch, but the result seems easy to predict.
Zhou Ruiyang < Won Songjin -- Won Songjin is playing well right now, beating Qiu Jun and Choi Cheolhan.
Park Yeonghun < Wang Lei -- Wang Lei is doing well this year.
Choi Cheolhan > Park Junghwan -- This seems like a close game... I just want to see another Choi Cheolhan game.

Kong Jie > Kim Jiseok -- Kong Jie has defeated him this year in similar situations, no?
Gu Li < Heo Yeongho -- Heo Yeongho will repeat An Choyeong's success against Gu Li.
Lee Sedol > Won Songjin -- Lee Sedol should not have trouble here.
Wang Lei < Choi Cheolhan -- Tough to predict, but Choi Cheolhan has more experience deep in international tournaments.

Kong Jie > Heo Yeongho -- This should be an interesting game. Kong Jie will have a tough climb to the final.
Lee Sedol > Choi Cheolhan -- The dead stones shall outnumber the living.

Kong Jie < Lee Sedol -- Lee Sedol wins 2-1. Lee Sedol has the "easiest" road to the final among the top players, so he is the safe pick for champion.

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I am Tartuffe from GoDiscussions.com

Yes, I understand that. And I thought that was what I was pointing out. Other people were saying that your opinions had no basis.

I was trying to point out that your opinions could very well have a basis, but just not one that they understood. One such basis is living in a closed culture.

I thought that I had expressed this, but maybe I wrote it poorly...

P.S. My wife may agree with you more on other issues (maybe even this one that we are discussing). She just had a different opinion about Koreans living abroad that didn't know Korean.

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be immersed

My predictions:

Kong Jie > Lee Changho ( This is not Changho of 5-10 years ago )
Park Jiyeon < Kim Jiseok ( I flipped a coin here )
Gu Li > Han Sanghoon ( Experience matters )
Heo Yeongho > Wang Tao ( coin also )
Lee Sedol > Yamashita Keigo
Zhou Ruiyang > Won Songjin
Park Yeonghun < Wang Lei
Choi Cheolhan > Park Junghwan

Kong Jie < Kim Jiseok ( The one where I am most likely to be wrong )
Gu Li > Heo Yeongho
Lee Sedol > Zhou Ruiyang ( Sedol won most of previous encounters )
Wang Lei < Choi Cheolhan

Gu Li 2 > 1 Kong Jie ( Gu Li is currently #1 player in China )
Lee Sedol 2 > 1 Choi Cheolhan ( Similar styles. Choi can't outfight Sedol, as he can other 9Ps. Sedol's experience wins )

Lee Sedol 2 > 1 Gu Li ( Sedol will have had easier schedule, and will be rested )

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Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Magicwand's comments do raise an interesting question: should international tournaments have seeded players, or should all players qualify through open tournaments and possibly also based on performance during the previous year's tournament.

I tentatively think there should be seeded players. I think it leads to slightly better results than having an open tournament. In general, holding an open tournament will favor the host nation, as more of its players will travel. This is counterbalanced by the presence of multiple international tournaments (Fujitsu-Japan), (Chunlan-China), (Samsung, LG, BC Card-Korea). There is a further consideration, arising from the disparity in game payments, which should lead to fewer Japanese players competing in the non-Japanese qualifying tournaments, because their incentive to travel for smaller payouts are lower. Of course, I'm not a disinterested observer.

Note that in one sense, having open tournaments that are restricted to a single nation, is not substantially different than seeding titleholders, since those titleholders have won an open tournament in their own nation. One is, in effect, doubling up a tournament as a title and international qualifier. The relevant question is whether qualifying tournaments should be international. One alternative is the approach taken by the Fujitsu, at least for the Japanese, where some of the nation's representatives are chosen in a qualifying tournament that's only for that nation.

Lastly, nothing I said should be construed to demand equal representation for the major nations: the Samsung had only two seeded Japanese players. I wish I got to see more Japanese competitors, but I don't think the format is unfair.

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Occupy Babel!