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Following Nakamura Sumire
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16525		 Page 25 of 33
Author:  jlt [ Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
CDavis7M wrote:
Whatever the origins of Tai Chi were, the only Tai Chi I've seen are grandmas and grandpas stretching in the park at 7am on a Sunday.
Author:  pajaro [ Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Ferran wrote:
pajaro wrote:
A record previously held by Cho Chikun, at 4 years and 1 months, when Cho was 15... some time ago.


I haven't had time to grep GoGod, yet, but I can't find a single game between the two of them. We want that game. We need that game.

There should be a way to crowdfund pro face-offs.



This was already said when she turned pro, let's say it again:

an exhibition game, please! :clap: :clap:

but really... is there any tournament where they might cross paths? I am thinking, perhaps Sumire will enter NHK after becoming a title challenger. It would be **great** to have Cho vs. Sumire on TV.

(AFAIK, title holders and former title holders qualify to play in the NHK tournament. But I see players that have never won a title, so maybe some spots are filled with challengers, league players...)
Author:  CDavis7M [ Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
An article on this achievement: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20220606/k ... 40/134000c
Image

In celebration of Sumire's 100 wins, Kenji Konoha (a Mainichi photographer, I think) remembers the time he took Sumire's photo as police chief. https://twitter.com/kenji_konoha/status ... 2706702336. He posted a few other photos too from when he interviewed her. Kenji Konoha has his photos everywhere it seems (maybe just mainichi in reality).

Image

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I bet Sumire will play Cho Chikun sooner than later.
Author:  Ferran [ Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
CDavis7M wrote:
Whatever the origins of Tai Chi were, the only Tai Chi I've seen are grandmas and grandpas stretching in the park at 7am on a Sunday.


It's about as easy to find a Taichi practitioner who does it martially as it is to find a kickboxer who does it for personal growth. It's possible but, even if the instructor can do it, sometimes the setup won't allow him to. But it does happen. If you know someone who wants to get into that, it's usually easier (or less difficult, at least) to look for people who also practice Ba Gua or Xing Yi (other spellings may apply). These tend to be less insistent on the "good vibes" mindset.

Take care.
Author:  Elom0 [ Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
pajaro wrote:
Ferran wrote:
pajaro wrote:
A record previously held by Cho Chikun, at 4 years and 1 months, when Cho was 15... some time ago.


I haven't had time to grep GoGod, yet, but I can't find a single game between the two of them. We want that game. We need that game.

There should be a way to crowdfund pro face-offs.



This was already said when she turned pro, let's say it again:

an exhibition game, please! :clap: :clap:

but really... is there any tournament where they might cross paths? I am thinking, perhaps Sumire will enter NHK after becoming a title challenger. It would be **great** to have Cho vs. Sumire on TV.

(AFAIK, title holders and former title holders qualify to play in the NHK tournament. But I see players that have never won a title, so maybe some spots are filled with challengers, league players...)


She's the new generation's Cho Chikun. I really thought he'd play her in her Shin-Shodan Match!
Author:  pajaro [ Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
A result.


Sumire beat Yo Kaei 8-dan in the B prelim of the Meijin. I saw a review in youtube, Sumire was way behind in the first half of the game, but she recovered and ended up winning. Impressive mental strength. Next is Koyama Kuya 5-dan, member of the Koyama clan. He is 10-5 this year. They will fight for a seat in the A prelim.

This game counts for promotion. How far is she from 3-dan?
Author:  Ferran [ Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
pajaro wrote:
Sumire beat Yo Kaei 8-dan in the B prelim of the Meijin. I saw a review in youtube, Sumire was way behind in the first half of the game, but she recovered and ended up winning. Impressive mental strength. Next is Koyama Kuya 5-dan, member of the Koyama clan. He is 10-5 this year. They will fight for a seat in the A prelim.


Yep. I want to check that game with some time. The spill towards the top left is interesting. I don't usually this kind of games, and yet...

Take care.
Author:  silviu22 [ Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
pajaro wrote:
This game counts for promotion. How far is she from 3-dan?


By my calculations she's got 17 wins. She needs 40 for 3p. Here are my records of her last promotion wins:

13: 1/24/2022 Honimbo 78 - Aoki Kikuyo 8p (f) B+ 3.5
14: 2/28/2022 Honimbo 78 - Terayama Rei 6p B+R
15: 3/14/2022 Kiriyama 29 - Rin Shien 8p
16: 3/14/2022 Kiriyama 29 - Takuji Yamada 8p
17: 4/28/2022 Meijin 48 - Shinji Yamada 6p
18: 6/13/2022 Meijin 48 - Yo Kaei (YANG, Chia Jung) 8p
Author:  pajaro [ Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
silviu22 wrote:

By my calculations she's got 17 wins. She needs 40 for 3p.


Are you sure?

According to this:

https://twitter.com/KK_joryu/status/1534104956357451776

When she got her 100th win, she had won 55 games in non female-only tournaments. I assume that most of them count for promotion (not all). For the 1-dan -> 2-dan promotion, she needed 30 wins. So now, she would have more or less 25 more games for promotion. These numbers are not accurate, I know, but I still find a big difference with your 17 (or 16, if we don't count the game with Yo Kaei, that happened after that post).

International games, Globis prelims... do they make up for the difference?
Author:  pajaro [ Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
A few days ago, Sumire beat Jo Bunen in the C prelim of the Gosei. Frankly, not surprising.

But the game was very short. Jo resigned after move 113, because one of her groups died. What I find surprising is that she resigned so early. I have seen other games that began badly for some player, and they kept playing. When the game has progressed enough, it is not polite to keep playing a lost game, because you can only win if the other makes a mistake. But so early, many players don't resign, because they try some big attack, or go for a big ko that because you have lots of threats. Jo didn't do something like that. She saw that the group was dead, ignored the aji, and resigned.

Was Jo overwhelmed? Is Sumire so scary that opponents lose desire to fight?
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Quote:
When she got her 100th win, she had won 55 games in non female-only tournaments. I assume that most of them count for promotion (not all). For the 1-dan -> 2-dan promotion, she needed 30 wins. So now, she would have more or less 25 more games for promotion.


I'm sure I'm not alone in finding it strange that the NK does not cater more to fans' interest by publishing things like "how many games to go for promotion".

But what thing we can glean from the figures that are produced is that Sumire does seem to be improving noticeably.

Last year her official-games tally was 23-12 (65.7%).

This year she is on 43-18 (70.5%).

I think it is fair to say that this year she will have faced a tougher class of opponent as she moves into the higher reaches of tournaments (which is also reflected in her higher number of games). On that basis her improvement is even more than the bare figures show.

Historically, players who have been extra special have almost all had career percentages of 65% to 70%.

PS
A reminder that the Globis Cup, Shinjin-O, Young Carp and Ryusei (but not Shin-Ryusei) count for promotion. Several domestic tournaments allow wins against amateurs. Preliminaries of foreign tournaments generally do NOT count. Women's tournaments do NOT count.

But with her win rate, Sumire may be in line for a promotion based on prize money. There are two slots available at her grade. But that would be in January.
Author:  pajaro [ Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
John Fairbairn wrote:

Last year her official-games tally was 23-12 (65.7%).

This year she is on 43-18 (70.5%).


I think you have this wrong.

43-18 was last year, this year it's 23-12.

This does not change your post. She is playing more and her opponents are stronger. The percentage, slightly lower (not higher), is still very good.

Right in the middle of the year, she has played more than half of total games last year. So she could end with more games.

John Fairbairn wrote:

But with her win rate, Sumire may be in line for a promotion based on prize money. There are two slots available at her grade. But that would be in January.


This prize money thing... I think I have asked before: could it be total prize money since the player is 2-dan (or 3-dan, or...). Because this year, there was some player (I don't remember the name) who was promoted based on prize money, with worse records. But I thought that maybe it was the prize money after 3-4 years being 2-dan.
Author:  CDavis7M [ Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
pajaro wrote:
This prize money thing... I think I have asked before: could it be total prize money since the player is 2-dan (or 3-dan, or...). Because this year, there was some player (I don't remember the name) who was promoted based on prize money, with worse records. But I thought that maybe it was the prize money after 3-4 years being 2-dan.
Interesting question. I wonder too and I found this explanation: https://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/player/rank.html

1. Title performance
2. Winning games
3. Prize earnings
If 1-6dan and not promoted by winning games this year, you can be promoted by prize earnings from that year. But it looks like it's actually the top 1-2 prize winners of each Dan rank, not some overall competition. Which is good for Sumire, right? Though it also seems like it's only earnings from the 7 major titles.
Author:  silviu22 [ Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
pajaro wrote:
silviu22 wrote:

By my calculations she's got 17 wins. She needs 40 for 3p.


Are you sure?

According to this:

https://twitter.com/KK_joryu/status/1534104956357451776

When she got her 100th win, she had won 55 games in non female-only tournaments. I assume that most of them count for promotion (not all). For the 1-dan -> 2-dan promotion, she needed 30 wins. So now, she would have more or less 25 more games for promotion. These numbers are not accurate, I know, but I still find a big difference with your 17 (or 16, if we don't count the game with Yo Kaei, that happened after that post).

International games, Globis prelims... do they make up for the difference?


Not all games count towards promotion. Right now, I believe she is exactly half way, with 20 wins. Here are her wins this year that count towards promotion to 3p:
13: 1/24/2022 Honimbo 78 - Aoki Kikuyo 8p (f) B+ 3.5
14: 2/28/2022 Honimbo 78 - Terayama Rei 6p B+R
15: 3/14/2022 Kiriyama 29 - Rin Shien 8p
16: 3/14/2022 Kiriyama 29 - Takuji Yamada 8p
17: 4/28/2022 Meijin 48 - Shinji Yamada 6p
18: 6/13/2022 Meijin 48 - Yo Kaei (YANG, Chia Jung) 8p
19: 6/23/2022 Oza 71 - Takeshita Ryoya 1p
20: 6/27/2022 Gosei 48 - Jo Bunen 1p

As you can see, there are only 8, even though she has won 23 games this year according to https://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/player/htm/ki000496.html. https://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/player/rank.html lists the tournament whose games count for promotion. In short, the major 7 + Agon/Kiryama and a few others. Wins in big international tournaments count as well.

In particular, women-only tournaments or special invitational or exhibition (like NHK cup) do not count.
Author:  pajaro [ Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
You seem to keep a very good record.

:bow: :bow:
Author:  pajaro [ Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Yesterday, Sumire played Koyama Kuya 5-dan in the last game of the B prelim of the Meijin. The winner gets to play in the A prelim, which is already a nice place to play. That winner was Koyama.

It was on youtube (strange, there was no record keeper), and I watched a bit now and then. AI never gave Sumire good chances. At the very best, it was close to even. But very briefly. The game was not good for Sumire, and I think she knew all the time. She didn't look very comfortable sitting on her chair. Koyama, on the other hand, was the same all the time. But I don't know him, so perhaps it's the usual, win or not. Before the game, he was 12-5 this year, so not and easy opponent. After the game, both of them left quickly.

Next is Fujiwara Rina (July 15th). Semifinal of the Senko Cup. People will compare Sumire's performance to the Meijin match.

Me too.
Author:  CDavis7M [ Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Nakamura Sumire's 100 wins is a big enough deal to get on the cover of Go World and get a photoshoot: https://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/publishing/ ... 02208.html

Image

Glad to see someone new on there.

----------

EDIT: A better image - https://twitter.com/Nihonkiin_book/stat ... 4989119489

Image
Author:  Ferran [ Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Ah, pity. I thought the board would be a tsumego...

Take care
Author:  gazzawhite [ Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Nakamura Sumire beat Fujisawa Rina in the semifinal of the Japanese Senko Cup. She won by 1.5 points. A video of the game is here.

The final will be on 17 July against Nyu Eiko. It will be livestreamed here.
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Just a small detail this reminds me of: apparently the AI Sumire prefers to study with is Fine Art (Jueyi). Maybe that also indicates she prefers to play on the Fox server.
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