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Japanese Title and League scene
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17723		 Page 8 of 9
Author:  pajaro [ Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
Good for Shibano.

Yesterday, Iyama had it. And for most of the second day, he was still ahead. But a big dragon died. Unexpectedly? To me, yes and no. Yes, because "big groups never die". But no, because Iyama has a tendendcy to leave groups undefended. He must be confident on his shinogi skills. But, when you are ahead, and it's the final game of such a match...

I saw a tweet yesterday, by Tobita Saki 2-dan. You know her? She has a popular youtube channel. As a player, she is not strong. As a commentator and teacher, she is probably better. Well, in that tweet, she said something like "big groups don't die, but we'll see about that one". Really? I thought. The one that died, could you really think it could be under attack? In the end... But that's pros. They see ahead and a lot of potential situations.

Shibano, we all remember, was in the same situation 2 years ago, in the Honinbo. 3-1 ahead, then 3-3 even, then losing in the finall game. This time, it was the same... until it wasn't (Iyama's fault). What was happening in Shibano's head? How did he sleep? The pressure sure was overwhelming, and most other players would have cracked. Like he did, 2 years ago. But this time, he was strong enough.

The next Kisei (unless Yamashita pulls a miracle) will be Kisei vs. Meijin. :clap:

About the meters: it's evidence that pros passed primary school :mrgreen:
It's just something made with paper and cardboard to show who they think is ahead. Check youtube, you will understand.
Author:  kvasir [ Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
According to the mamumamu rating there is chance for Yamashita Keigo. His predicted win rate, in a single game, is 28.6% and by that he has 8.2% chance at winning the two games in a row required to become the challenger.

I like the new meters. If only they'd also cancel the AI percentage bar. It is not easy to evaluate these positions accurately but the bar just gives it away. In this game in particular it was evaluating black ahead, around 70-80%, it was as little a as B+2.5 when I reviewed the game, but black was ahead ~20 points in territory so it was quite obvious if you followed the AI percentages on youtube that the white's attack was going to be very severe.

I also liked how Cho U appeared to just give one or two move variations instead of trying to playout the game. I guess all the laughter made it amusing to watch, even if I didn't understand anything :mrgreen:
Author:  CDavis7M [ Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
I'm happy for Shibano. What a match. I missed most of the video streams. I think I will just wait for the magazine reviews.

Compared to last year We went from 3 title holders to 5, including all 3 of Reiwa's Crows: Ichiriki, Shibano, and Kyo. So then I have to think about that newspaper article from a year ago (or whenever it was) where they called for the rise of these 3 over Iyama. I thought it was silly because Iyama was still dominant and Reiwa had just begun. But now these guys are proving themselves.

I'll be paying more attention to Kyo. I wonder if he will hold on to the Judan title when that comes back in March.

There's still more games this year but I can already say that Japanese Go in 2022 has been much more exciting than the 2021 scene.
Author:  Elom0 [ Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
Iyama Yuta Wins by half a point against Yo Seiki in the second game of the Oza
Author:  Elom0 [ Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
CDavis7M wrote:
I'm happy for Shibano. What a match. I missed most of the video streams. I think I will just wait for the magazine reviews.

Compared to last year We went from 3 title holders to 5, including all 3 of Reiwa's Crows: Ichiriki, Shibano, and Kyo. So then I have to think about that newspaper article from a year ago (or whenever it was) where they called for the rise of these 3 over Iyama. I thought it was silly because Iyama was still dominant and Reiwa had just begun. But now these guys are proving themselves.

I'll be paying more attention to Kyo. I wonder if he will hold on to the Judan title when that comes back in March.

There's still more games this year but I can already say that Japanese Go in 2022 has been much more exciting than the 2021 scene.


I mean, I liked when Iyama was dominant in the Japanese stage like Shin Jinseo is now in the world stage. But with all those title matches Iyama would never get to play in international tournaments. So I only want him to hold the Honinbo and make sure the other pros make sure Iyama doesn't qualify for title matches, especially the Kisei and Meijin. They seem to be doing a good job in the Kisei, almost knocking Iyama out of the S-League.
Author:  pajaro [ Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
The final games of the Meijin prelim tournament was played today.

Cho U will go back to the league after 3 years, and Sada Atsushi will play in it for the first time.

Kono Rin, who I tought would win too, lost to Fujita Akihiko. Another new player.

Hane Naoki lost his seat after 14 years, but Yamashi Keigo, another of the Heisei 4, is still there and will play for the 19th time.
Author:  pajaro [ Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
pajaro wrote:

The next Kisei (unless Yamashita pulls a miracle) will be Kisei vs. Meijin. :clap:



Well...

in the first game to decide the challenger, Yamashita won.

Now everything is down to the game they will play next 21st.

I would really like Yamashita to challenge for Kisei again and, of course, win it.
Author:  CDavis7M [ Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
If that happened we really would be in a golden age of variety in Japanese Go!
Author:  Harleqin [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
I remember when Yamashita challenged O Rissei for some major title. Must have been about 20 years ago.
Author:  pajaro [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
That must have been when Yamashita became Kisei for the first time, I think.

To me, Kisei meant Yamashita Keigo, the same way that Meijin meant Yoda Norimoto. Long time ago...
Sadly, not again. Shibano won, so he will face Ichiriki. I remember them playing in the leagues and other tournaments, but not in a final match. 7 games, starting January.

My money is on
Shibano
Author:  Elom0 [ Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
This may be Yamashita Keigo's last chance. I feel so bad for him, but I'm happy for Shibano Toramanu!
Author:  pajaro [ Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
This weekend (Nov 26-27) we have the Wakagoi / Hiroshima Aluminum Tournament.

Broadcasted here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxib-MV54I

It's like the Shinjin O. But in a weekend.
Author:  Elom0 [ Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
pajaro wrote:
This weekend (Nov 26-27) we have the Wakagoi / Hiroshima Aluminum Tournament.

Broadcasted here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxib-MV54I

It's like the Shinjin O. But in a weekend.


This tournament is definitely hype-worthy!

Ueno 2 for 2?　Unless it's the final we're all hoping for, Ueno-Fujisawa!
Author:  pajaro [ Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
Elom0 wrote:

Ueno 2 for 2?　Unless it's the final we're all hoping for, Ueno-Fujisawa!


It might be Ueno 2 for 2.
It won't be Ueno-Fujisawa.
It could be Ueno-Otake.

2nd day, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EyRMZpcEdk
Author:  Elom0 [ Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
pajaro wrote:
Elom0 wrote:

Ueno 2 for 2?　Unless it's the final we're all hoping for, Ueno-Fujisawa!


It might be Ueno 2 for 2.
It won't be Ueno-Fujisawa.
It could be Ueno-Otake.

2nd day, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EyRMZpcEdk


Okay the way Ueno dispatched the Agon Kiriyama Cup holder, I think she will win it Again. And She'll probably qualify for the Asia TV Cup in 5 years. She's a speed go demon.
Author:  pajaro [ Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
Here it is: Ueno Asami 4-dan, winner of the Wakagoi Cup for the second time in a row.

She was in danger in the semifinal against Koyama Kuya 5-dan (who beat Fujisawa in the 2nd round) winning by half point. But she had an easier time against Koike Yoshihiro 7-dan (who beat Sumire in the first round). Ueno also beat Hirata Tomoya 7-dan, winner of the Agon Kiriyama Cup, who won Takao Mari 1-dan in the first round. This could have been in the Amazon thread :mrgreen:

The hammer did very well.
Author:  pajaro [ Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
4th game of the Tengen today.

Ida Atsushi, playing black, played his first move in Tengen.

Let's remember that in the first game, he played Tengen in this first move too, but playing white.

He has lost both of these games, and won both "usual" games. Today, he most likely thought that being ahead, he could afford the risk and it would be cool to win the Tengen title playing Tengen. Yes, it would be so cool, but you have to win. I am sure that his fans won't regret it so much if he loses because of this.

In the last game, they will nigiri again. Where will he play his first move?
Author:  kvasir [ Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
I wonder which is more important to Seki Kotaro about the final game in the Tengen match:

1. keep the title
2. become 9 dan

Any insight?
Author:  pajaro [ Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
That's a difficult question.

Both goals come together in this case. But if he were to pick only one...

if Kotaro wins the title, he inmediatly gets a prize. But if he becomes 9-dan, he will get paid better (I think) for wins from now on. So in the long term, he could make more than the prize for winning the title. Also, if he lost the title, he could win another one in the near future. But being promoted based on wins takes a looot of time. And the chance to win Tengen/Gosei/Judan/Oza twice in a row may not come again.

So I'd say that if he thinks in the long term, promotion is better.
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Title and League scene
Quote:
But if he becomes 9-dan, he will get paid better (I think) for wins from now on.


Game fees according to ranks were abolished a long time ago (in 2003). at the same time that entry into tournaments was made no longer dependent on dannage but on merit. Prior to 2003, if you were 1-4 dan you automatically entered an event in the lowest preliminary. That was changed so that if you did well and got promoted to the next preliminary before losing, you re-entered the following year in that next preliminary.

Furthermore, when the Oteai was abolished just before that, the bonuses paid to 9-dans in lieu of game fees (since 9-dans didn't play in the Oteai as they couldn't be promoted any further) also disappeared (having already been very heavily cut as the Oteai no longer had a sponsor). 9-dans also lost their right to appear in the top preliminaries automatically, i.e. they could be demoted (not in rank but in tournament entry-level).

The thinking was twofold. There were too many 9-dans as a result of rank inflation and they were costing the hard-up Nihon Ki-in too much. There was also a feeling that the young talent that was needed to challenge for international honours was being stifled by the old system. They needed more games at the higher levels.
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