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 Post subject: Re: Amazon army
Post #41 Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:41 am 
Oza

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Although I have stepped back from regular contributions, I'm glad that some others are continuing to post. Maybe they'll allow me to encourage them by adding a couple of new Amazonian items to watch out for.

One is new pro Jo Bunen (more precisely Jo Bun'en 徐文燕). At age 16, she has just won the 3rd Y's Academy Cup. She has a Chinese-born mother, Kin En, who settled in Japan as an amateur - was once the ladies' amateur Honinbo) and became a pro there.

The Y's Academy Cup is a strange event, held in the Diamond Go Salon, not too far from the Ki-in. It's a Swiss for 10 players, 5 pro and 5 amateur. But the pros have to give the amateurs 2 stones. Jo scored 5-0, beating fellow 1-dans Takeshita Ryoya, Tanaka Yuki, Suzukawa Natsumi and Mito Shuhei. Definitely one to watch.

A pair I personally would definitely avoid watching, as it involves J-pop cutesies, are Natsukawa Ami and Konatsu Yuana of OS☆U. They recently visited the Nagoya branch of the Nihon Ki-in as rank beginners. They may give female go an even higher profile. Actually the whole Nagoya go scene seems quite lively, as result of a creative response by pros there to the lockdowns. Even I would have to admit that a bit of J-pop glitter as well would not go amiss.

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 Post subject: Re: Amazon army
Post #42 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:08 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
Even I would have to admit that a bit of J-pop glitter as well would not go amiss.


So, sir, you affirm,
All that glitters is
Not Go.

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Post #43 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:36 am 
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Ueno Asami has reached the 46th Shinjin-O finals. Her sister Risa didn't get past the prelims. According to John Power, she'll be the second woman, 20+ years later, to reach the finals. If I understand the charts at the NK, women's performance was interesting.

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Post #44 Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:41 am 
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Ueno Asami 4p played the first game of the Shinjin-O and lost it to Sotoyanagi Senbun 3p. I watched a bit of the game. There was some interesting fighting, and although Asami lost, she had her chances. Let's hope she can do better in the next game. For those who don't know, this is a best of 3 match, so she has to win the two remaining games.

And perhaps more interesting... Fujisawa Rina 5p beat Ichiriki Ryo 9p for a seat in the 60 Judan. Getting to the main tournament is a big feat, of course, but doing so beating Ichiriki makes it still bigger. I expected him to win, because of his lastest results, but it seems to me that the gap is not so wide. Also (again, seems to me...) his mental strength needs some work, but that's topic for other threads.

お疲れ様、藤沢先生!


Last edited by pajaro on Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #45 Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:16 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:

One is new pro Jo Bunen (more precisely Jo Bun'en 徐文燕). At age 16, she has just won the 3rd Y's Academy Cup. She has a Chinese-born mother, Kin En, who settled in Japan as an amateur - was once the ladies' amateur Honinbo) and became a pro there.


I saw her as a recorder in a couple of games (for the Meijin? Honinbo?). Usually, they say the name of the commentators in the description of the video (this is all YouTube). The recorder, not so often. For what I see, they are usually young and lower dans. Years ago, my teacher (former insei) told me that he was recorder or time keeper in pro games too. A chance to think along with the players and get a new perspective.

Back to Bunen, let's hope she can do well. One of several new female pros to follow.

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Post #46 Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:30 am 
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Another one for the archives... Shin Ryusei, Asami Ueno vs Cho Riyu.



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Post #47 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:32 pm 
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The Hiroshima Aluminum Cup (or Wakagoi) is a tournament for young players. 30 years and under, 7p and under.

The prelims just finished (https://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/match/wakagoi/016.html). Although the tournament is mixed, the prelims are not, so it's another chance to see how young female players do against each other. Same would go for the Viking Army, if they had a thread... :lol: Important too, games are fast. 30 sec/move + 10*1 min byo-yomi. NHK style, I think. And all games for each group are played the same day. That's 3 games, maximum, if you win your group.

Winners were Ueno Asami 4p, Ueno Risa 1p, Kato Chie 2p and Tsukada Chiharu 1p. For those wondering, Nakamura Sumire 2p lost in the first round, and Fujisawa Rina 5p didn't play. She won last year, and I don't know if that means that she will be in the main tournament, or she won't play at all.

What I find interesting is that some players who don't usually have many chances could compete, make some noise and have a chance to play better players in the main tournament. Asami is above all of the other players, but if you check Risa's, Chie's and Chiharu's stats for this year, you see that they are better than last years'. That's good, and to improve even more, you need to play even more.

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 Post subject: Re: Amazon army
Post #48 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:40 am 
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Next games:

Ueno Asami 4p vs. Sotoyanagi Sebun 3p (the video's description says 3p, the Nihoon Kiin's page says shodan...), for the 46th Shinjin-O.

Fujisawa Rina... 6th dan [I don't think the NK's page is up to date] vs. Ueno Asami... Again, the video says 3p, but both SL and the NK say 4p (this very year). Maybe it's still not official?. 40th Women's Honinbo. Xie Yimin to comment.

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Post #49 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:48 am 
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Rina is 5-dan, Asami 4-dan and Sebun is 3-dan.

But what I find interesting is that there seems to a trend (glacier-like, admittedly) in Japanese publications to omit the dan ranks. This is not new. The use of dans in publications has mainly been a Nihon Ki-in thing. Publications before theirs, i.e. before 1924, routinely omitted dans (and often even omitted surnames).

They may be getting the message at long last that dans don't really mean anything as regards game records. Indeed, under the Japanese system you normally get promoted as you get weaker. For example, you get to X+1-dan from X-dan usually by just winning a largish number of games over a period of many years. Just this week Suzuki Isao got to 8-dan on wins after about 23 years. As you get older you decline and end up getting pitted against new 1-dans and so on, so of course you do pick up a few wins here and there - but you are certainly not getting any stronger.

Dans only have meaning in things like pension rights and how near the top of the table you sit at parties - things that don't interest readers of game records. The only thing about dans that interests amateurs is whether they themselves can call themselves 1-dan. But that's just delusional psychology.

For these and other reasons I have been inclined to start omitting dan grades in the GoGoD database. Haven't quite got there yet, but...

And don't get me started on the ABOMINATION of using p instead of dan. The relevant letter in Japanese, Korean and Chinese is D. By all means distinguish pros from amas, but use D and A, not P and D.

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Post #50 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:18 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
But what I find interesting is that there seems to a trend (glacier-like, admittedly) in Japanese publications to omit the dan ranks.


I think I read somewhere that it came from the new promotional system. I'm not sure, but...

a. Change in Japan tends to be... not hasty. To the point I suspect our Western cause-effect sense gets jammed.
b. In a certain way, any dan rank is simply a title. Some arts have a first tier of dans granted on proficiency, and another (say, from 6d on) granted on, basically, social status (teachers, branch heads... it depends). As long as you're aware of it... In fact, I know a koryu that has only 5 dans (for proficiency) and then reverts to the makimono / menkyo system.

Quote:
The only thing about dans that interests amateurs is whether they themselves can call themselves 1-dan. But that's just delusional psychology.


It's a smelly, juicy carrot. If it helps, go for it. If it makes you break your ankle while you try to steal it from a farmer's field, stop that and find another one.

Quote:
And don't get me started on the ABOMINATION of using p instead of dan. The relevant letter in Japanese, Korean and Chinese is D. By all means distinguish pros from amas, but use D and A, not P and D.


Okay, you made me laugh with that one, and I sort of see your point. But it's shorter.

Maybe we should use the old system? Don't shogi players use it, still? 1-3d for amateurs, 4-6 for good players, 7-9 for living treasures.

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Post #51 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:38 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
And don't get me started on the ABOMINATION of using p instead of dan. The relevant letter in Japanese, Korean and Chinese is D. By all means distinguish pros from amas, but use D and A, not P and D.


I have been using p myself because it's what I see here and there. Monkey see, monkey do :oops: Not that I really care, because aside from a few exceptions, all players that we talk about are professional players. Adding rank to the name is in the tradition of adding san, sensei, or any other sign of status. Japanese tradition only? Or common in more Asian countries? I don't know.

Back to the topic, as commented too in another post, today Xie Yimin beat Cho Chikun in the last prelim of the Meijin league. 2 more wins and she will be the first female player in one of the big leagues. Her opponent will be Tsuneishi Takashi. He was beaten by Ueno Asami for a seat in the Judan, so sorry, but he will lose again in a last prelim game.

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Post #52 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:55 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
Quote:
Eiko Nyu 3p (I think Eiko is first name)


No, Nyu is her first name, her surname. And it is now official policy in Japan to put the surname first even when writing the name in our letters. Americans please, note.


I am mystified why for Asian names they don't simply adopt the unambiguous convention of writing the name in Roman characters as Surname comma Given Name (for example):

Nyu, Eiko

This convention would preserve the correct name order, and give Westerners a very strong clue. Since from our own school records, medical charts, etc. We all know what the comma means. True enough, it is easier to use when presenting the name, than when using it in a sentence, but for listing Book Authors, who the black and white players are, etc. Isn't it just a good idea?

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Post #53 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:59 am 
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hzamir wrote:
I am mystified why for Asian names they don't simply adopt the unambiguous convention of writing the name in Roman characters as Surname comma Given Name...This convention would preserve the correct name order, and give Westerners a very strong clue. Since from our own school records, medical charts, etc. We all know what the comma means. True enough, it is easier to use when presenting the name, than when using it in a sentence, but for listing Book Authors, who the black and white players are, etc. Isn't it just a good idea?
If the name were put into a box, I think that makes sense. And I have seen it that way. On the Nihon Kiin profiles actually. They also use capitalization, which I like and see in formal situations (author, signatory, etc). Some people have more than 3 (nonhyphenated) names in the full name.
Quote:
井山 裕太(イヤマ ユウタ / IYAMA, Yuta)
一力 遼(イチリキ リョウ / ICHIRIKI, Ryo)

What bothers me is that Western format will swap the names but doesn't care to indicate when the Japanese "first name" is actually a title (which doesn't get swapped) and not the given/personal name.

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Post #54 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:05 am 
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Ferran wrote:
Maybe we should use the old system?.

Which old system? The one starting with "defending clumsily" and "playing as if stupid" on up to "clear understanding of the mysteries" and strongest of all "able to sit"?

John Fairbairn wrote:
The only thing about dans that interests amateurs is whether they themselves can call themselves 1-dan. But that's just delusional psychology..
Such low aspirations. I am aiming to play as if stupid.

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Post #55 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:01 pm 
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Quote:
Such low aspirations. I am aiming to play as if stupid.


Nice! We haven't had a game of Mornington Crescent here for a long time, so let's indulge ourselves again. But with a superior twist. Instead of stations you have to find allusions that follow on from the previous one, preferably with a go theme. My go!

Allegedly quoting Napoleon a British diplomat arguing with Clemenceau in Paris scornfully said, "Du sublime au ridicule, il n'y a qu'un pas." Clemenceau flashed back: "Oui, le Pas de Calais."

For those who find it bemusing, the key words so far are 'stupid' and 'sublime'. And to keep things on track, we'll ban the Helsinki Double-shunting Manoeuvre, OK?

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Post #56 Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:15 am 
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CDavis7M wrote:
Which old system? The one starting with "defending clumsily" and "playing as if stupid" on up to "clear understanding of the mysteries" and strongest of all "able to sit"?

The Japanese one, not the Chinese. I leave that one to Fairbairn senpai...

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Post #57 Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:22 am 
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The Japanese one, not the Chinese. I leave that one to Fairbairn senpai...

It's both, though the Kansai Ki-in seems to be the only one to use regularly (in diplomas).

This is Go Cluedo (TM)!

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Post #58 Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:06 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
It's both, though the Kansai Ki-in seems to be the only one to use regularly (in diplomas).


You know you just made me glee silently, right?

And only silently because I live in a city and I don't want to be carried to a white, soft, room.

Take care. Thanks

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Post #59 Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:16 am 
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Ferran wrote:
Ueno Asami 4p vs. Sotoyanagi Sebun 3p, 46th Shinjin-O.


B+R; Ueno 4p wins


Take care

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Post #60 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:05 pm 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
Nice! We haven't had a game of Mornington Crescent here for a long time, so let's indulge ourselves again. But with a superior twist. Instead of stations you have to find allusions that follow on from the previous one,
I had to look this game up. I'm not sure how the game is played in the first, second, or third place. Was Osaka the third place?

Maybe best to derail into another thread

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