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 Post subject: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #1 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:45 pm 
Oza
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https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220818/p2a/00m/0na/003000c
The Kansai Kiin in Osaka seems to have one-upped the Nihon Kiin's promotion of Sumire when she was only ten years old. Let's see how he does.

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #2 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:38 am 
Oza

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An interesting development, but I wonder whether it's a fair comparison with Sumire.

The Kansai Ki-in's regulations for this scheme say that the recommended player (who has to be under 12) becomes a jun-kishi and does not become a kishi until he/she reaches 2-dan. Jun-kishi is the normal way of saying "semi-professional" and kishi is a fully fledged professional. The way we would put it here, however, might be to say that a 1-dan is a probationary grade. In practice, the player will get only 50% of the game fees, not training subsidy and no health insurance.

However, the candidate's potential is regarded as the most important factor, and Reo had already defeated several pros in even games last year. The actual test is a test game (in this case against Seto Taiki, no less) and this game plus two others are submitted to a panel of the top ten prize-ranking professionals in the Kansai Ki-in. We saw how well pros could judge potential with Sumire, so I'd be amazed if Reo didn't make 2-dan soon.

However, I do remember talking to a Nihon Ki-in official who was VERY sniffy about Kansai Ki-in grades. Rather int he way that European players get sniffy about US grades :) Or western players in general get sniffy about Japanese grades ("he's only a Japanese 9-dan" comes to mind again!).


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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #3 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:59 pm 
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I read about this new player. I didn't know much about how he was nominated to be a pro. John's post (as usual) provided a clearer picture.

When I read about it, I couldn't help but think that the Kansai Kiin was trying to get ahead of the Nihon Kiin by having a still younger pro. I can't help but think that their standards might not be the same. This said, veteran pros may have a good eye for potential and think that Reo can have a bright future. I am not going to judge this, of course. But the comparison with Sumire is on the table, so I am going to add: yes, Sumire is doing very well, yes, Sumire had a hard time in her first games, and no, becoming a pro by special recommendation does not equal a great performance. Tsuji Hana 2-dan turned pro also by recommendation (*), and she is doing just fine. I would say average for a player her age and experience.

In the end, the answer my friend, is on the goban.

(*) in her case, recomendation for women. I leave the reader to think about this

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #4 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:26 am 
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I am watching his exhibition game with Yu Zhengqi on Pandanet right now. Looks like he knows all the AI josekis and I am not sure who got into trouble but Yu appears to be on the hunt. Fujita Reo has two groups with 1.25 eyes between them :o

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #5 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:16 am 
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I've only watched the beginning so far. A player on OGS Forums provided this link. I haven't seen this Kansai Kiin YouTube channel before but it appears legit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3opwUjVIakM

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #6 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:00 pm 
Oza

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To be pedantic, this is not an exhibition game (which would be a fast game where the players try to entertain the crowd). This is a commemorative 記念 game with a high dan to mark qualification as a 1-dan, and as such is a long-standing Kansai Ki-in tradition. The players take the game seriously. The time limits used to be two hours each. They used to have two-stone handicaps, then they started using negative handicaps. I don't know yet what conditions were used in this game.

Of course, there must be a "show-off" element to this game, but it would have happened even without that.

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #7 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:22 pm 
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OK, pedantic or not, to me it sounds similar to how university students go to the commencement ceremony instead of the graduation ceremony only because that is what it is called.

There was this announcement on the kansai kiin webpage. I think it might say 1h + byoyomi and no komi.

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:08 am 
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He played a game in the Judan preliminary B last night (relayed on pandanet) and it is a good one, a proof that the more prestigious, older, respectable professionals of the past have their value - might I say more than that of gold? His opponent, a senior citizen at the advanced age of 17, edged out a win in an exciting game that featured everything: clever opening, strategy, an attack, a phony ponuki and finally a close endgame. If it was a 9 dan game we could maybe talk about an endgame fiasco but I don't think it is unusual for the more experienced, the teenagers, to gain a few points on less experienced child professionals.



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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #9 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:10 am 
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First 9 dan scalp :mrgreen:

I didn't watch but Leo(?) played Ushikubo Yoshitaka 9 dan today in the Meijin preliminaries and won!

Since I didn't watch any of the game live I don't have sense of what happened but Ushikubo made a nice resignation problem.

White to kill in upper left corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O O O . . O . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X . X O . . O O O X . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O X X X O O X X X X X . O . X . . .|
$$ | . O X O O O X . . X O . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . X O . O X X X X . O X X X . X . . .|
$$ | . X . . X O X . O X O X O X O O X . .|
$$ | . . . O . O O O . X O X . O . O X . .|
$$ | . . O . O . O X . X O . O . O X X . .|
$$ | . O O O X . . X . . O . . . . O X . .|
$$ | . X X X X . O . . , O X . O . O X . .|
$$ | . . X . . O X O . . X O O O X X X . .|
$$ | . . O X . O X . . . X O X O O O O X .|
$$ | . . . X . O X O O O X . X . . X X X .|
$$ | . . X O O O O X X X X . . X X . X O .|
$$ | . X X X . . X X . . . . O O . X O X .|
$$ | . O X O O O X . O , . O O X . X O X .|
$$ | O . O O . X . X . O O . . O . X O X .|
$$ | X O . O . . X . X X O . . . O O O O .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X O . . . . O . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #10 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:22 pm 
Oza

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This makes him the youngest player to beat a 9-dan in official play, I reckon. Sumire was 10 when she did it. Reo will be 10 in April. Both youngsters beat 75-year-olds. (Yi Ch'ang-ho was 12 when he did it but his victim was no less than Seo Pong-su. Yi Se-tol was 13, but again Seo was the fall guy. In China. Chang Hao was 16 when he beat Nie Weiping.)

Seems kids that age no longer have to wait for the tooth fairy to make money. Except that we're in a cashless society now. How do the tooth fairies meet their obligations nowadays?


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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #11 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:14 pm 
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However, I do remember talking to a Nihon Ki-in official who was VERY sniffy about Kansai Ki-in grades.


I don't mean to cause controversy, but the amount of lack of self-awareness that official must have is stunning. I doubt I would have the discipline not to mention what the rest of the world thinks of Nihon Kiin grades if I was the one talking to him, chastise my disrespect! Or maybe we should send our two opinionated friends on to talk to him、and for those who weren't there to witness their rants by opinionated I mean on the level of Japanese go! And I didn't think the Nihom Kiin could surprise me!

It is a relief that Japan has someone other to rely on than just Sumire and Kotaro in 12 years time, unless the Japanese youth team in the Baduk League starts doing well and I can start having hope that they could carry the flag for Japan.

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #12 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:21 pm 
Oza
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John Fairbairn wrote:
... Seems kids that age no longer have to wait for the tooth fairy to make money. Except that we're in a cashless society now. How do the tooth fairies meet their obligations nowadays?

Maybe modern kids put their tooth and their smartphone under the pillow?

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #13 Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:41 pm 
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ez4u wrote:
John Fairbairn wrote:
... Seems kids that age no longer have to wait for the tooth fairy to make money. Except that we're in a cashless society now. How do the tooth fairies meet their obligations nowadays?

Maybe modern kids put their tooth and their smartphone under the pillow?


Then they get a digital notification saying, 'the digital toothfairy has collected your tooth. collect your 0.001 bitcoin. Upgrade to the Premium tooth fairy today at a special offer for advice on how to invest your Toothfairy Basic Income!'

I'm pretty sure that we're going to have the record for largest age gap in a pro match broken.

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #14 Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:28 am 
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Leo played a game today with another 9 dan in the second round of the same Meijin preliminary as the previous 9 dan. Kurahashi Masayuki is a Kansai Kiin 9 dan that dislikes cucumbers and would have been a cook if he wasn't a pro that is ranked about 120th (in Japan) on the mamumamu list. How can you dislike cucumbers? - you may ask :-? It doesn't matter, the game was interesting and possibly something for my pet thread about early troubles. You could say Leo was served up cold as diced cucumber.

At move 91 I thought the game was just over. The game of course continued while there were unresolved areas and certified 9 dan technique was put on display.

There weren't that many big mistakes up to the point I considered that white was in too much trouble. There were four mistakes around -3 points which were shared equally among the players, and two mistakes just over -4 points by Leo. Those two were only that large when compared to hard to see tesuji that had hard to understand conclusions. I don't think any of these "mistakes" are really the reason for Leo's trouble, it is more strategic, the 9 dan outplayed the 1 dan.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B position at move 91
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . O . X . O . . . . . X . . . .|
$$ | . . X X O . O . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O X O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . O 1 . . . . O . X . O . . .|
$$ | . O O O O . . X . O . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X O X O O X . O . O . X . . . . .|
$$ | . . X X X . X O X X X O . X O . O . .|
$$ | . . . . X . X O . . . O . X . . . . .|
$$ | . X . O O O O . O X X X O X . O . . .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . O O . X . X . O . O .|
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . O O X . X O X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #15 Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:02 pm 
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It looks like Leo has 9 official wins after adding one today. I think that means he is just one game short of being 1/3 the way to 2 dan.

I guess lot of the older higher ranked players he plays are not as strong anymore as they used to be. He appears to be 4 - 3 against 9 dans and 0 - 4 against 1 dans :) or those 1 dans could be hungrier for that win. I saw some of his game with a 74 year old 4 dan a not close to 74 year old 5 dan, promoted to 4 dan in 2022, and it looked to me like the 45 dan was winning but maybe slacked off too early and the endgame was in Leo's favor. I don't know if it was a trap, a way of setting up a resignation or it could have been a blunder. At the end there was an unexpected move. I somehow doubt it was a blunder, maybe a way to resign.

I'll make a prediction that Leo will have a win rate over 50% for this year :) Last year appears to have been 7 - 10, which is 41%.

===Edit
I confused the opponent with someone Leo played earlier.


Last edited by kvasir on Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #16 Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:26 pm 
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I seem to have had Leo's opponent mixed up with his opponent in the game before.

Game record:



The main story in the game to me was in this part.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White takes territory instead of helping the stones in the center.
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O .|
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . O . O X O X|
$$ | . O . O O . O . . . . . X . O O O X .|
$$ | . X O O X X O X . , . . . X . , X . .|
$$ | . X X X . . X O O O O O . . . X . X .|
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X X . 4 . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . O O . X . . . . . . . . 2 . .|
$$ | . X . , X O . O . , . . . . . , . X .|
$$ | . . X . X O O . . . . . . . . X X O .|
$$ | . . X . O X X O . . . . . . . X O O .|
$$ | . . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ | . X X O . X X . . . . . . O O O . . .|
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . X . . . X X X O . . .|
$$ | . X O O . . O O X , . . . O X O O . .|
$$ | . X X O . O . X O X . . X X O X O . .|
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X . . 6 5 O X X 3 .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black attack is soft and from a distance.
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O .|
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . O . O X O X|
$$ | . O . O O . O . . . . . X . O O O X .|
$$ | . X O O X X O X . , . . . X . , X . .|
$$ | . X X X . . X O O O O O . . . X . X .|
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X X . X . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . X . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . O 3 4 . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . O O . X 2 . . . 7 . . . X . .|
$$ | . X . , X O . O . , 6 . . . . , . X .|
$$ | . . X . X O O . . . . 1 . . . X X O .|
$$ | . . X . O X X O . . . . . . . X O O .|
$$ | . . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ | . X X O . X X . . . . . . O O O . . .|
$$ | . . O . O . . . X . . . X X X O . . .|
$$ | . X O O . . O O X , . . . O X O O . .|
$$ | . X X O . O . X O X . . X X O X O . .|
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X . . X O O X X O .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White quickly makes shape.
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O .|
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . O . O X O X|
$$ | . O . O O . O . . . . . X . O O O X .|
$$ | . X O O X X O X . , . . . X . , X . .|
$$ | . X X X . . X O O O O O . . . X . X .|
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X X . X . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O 1 X . . X . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . O O . X O . 4 . X . . . X . .|
$$ | . X . , X O . O . 5 O . . . . , . X .|
$$ | . . X . X O O . . 3 2 X . . . X X O .|
$$ | . . X . O X X O . . . . . . . X O O .|
$$ | . . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ | . X X O . X X . . . . . . O O O . . .|
$$ | . . O . O . . . X . . . X X X O . . .|
$$ | . X O O . . O O X , . . . O X O O . .|
$$ | . X X O . O . X O X . . X X O X O . .|
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X . . X O O X X O .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


Is white's group just fine now?

It is not so easy.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O .|
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . O . O X O X|
$$ | . O . O O . O . . . . . X . O O O X .|
$$ | . X O O X X O X . , . . . X . , X . .|
$$ | . X X X . . X O O O O O . . . X . X .|
$$ | . . . . b . X X X X X T X . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . O O d X O . X S X . . . X . .|
$$ | . X c , X O . O . O O . . . . , . X .|
$$ | . . X . X O O . . O X X . . . X X O .|
$$ | . . X . O X X O a . . . . . . X O O .|
$$ | . . . O . O X X . . . . . . X O X O .|
$$ | . X X O . X X . . . . . . O O O . . .|
$$ | . . O . O . . . X . . . X X X O . . .|
$$ | . X O O . . O O X , . . . O X O O . .|
$$ | . X X O . O . X O X . . X X O X O . .|
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X . . X O O X X O .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


For a quick answer consider this diagram where A and B are the best ways to make eyes for white. At first it would appear that that white has many simple ways to make more eyes if he can play A. The critical question, then, is if white can live if black can play A. The answer is yes, white can make the final eye, by just playing simple, thanks to C and D.

However, if you were to analyze what happens if black plays B or C then you could find it difficult to guarantee two eyes. It would appear to come down to the cut marked with a triangle and the wedge marked with a square. According to KataGo white will often be connecting on the first line to the upper left corner. It is not at all clear to me that works after black connects at the triangle point, maybe white would have to play A and go into the center anyway. It gets wildly complicated.

Basically, if white only gets to play A then it is a hard reading problem that can go on for many moves. I at least don't see a way to simplify it. But if black attack with C then the form appears alive, there aren't many variations to be checked and they seem to lead quickly to life, so quickly that I summarized it in only a few words.

I don't know how Leo approached thinking about this position but when black connected the triangle spot he defended the shape. That suggested that the relationship to this cut was clear to him.

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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #17 Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:19 pm 
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It's never easy to be certain how to read Japanese names, or how to transcribe them even when you know how they sound. But Reo seems the best choice here (that's how the Japanese say it). Most Japanese newspapers and similar sources use Reo; only Youtubers seem to like Leo, and at a guess I'd say that is because Youtubers are young and there are some singers or the like popular with the young who affect the westernised Leo form. But if you read what Fujita Reo's father says about his little boy, he has yet to be contaminated by the pop scene. He's just a normal little lad and his father makes sure he stays that way, keeping him away from staring at a go board and preferring the outdoor life for him. (Unlike Sumire - should we say Violet? - there is no go in his family. He fell in love with black and white counters at age 4 and fell for Othello. His father tried to find an Othello club but couldn't and so they ended up in a go club, and so history was in the making.)

It seems worth mentioning that a young Japanese football star currently plays for Celtic under the name Hatate Reo. Also, if you do insist on westernising, surely you have to say Fujisawa Lena and Ueno Lisa, and so on.

Mind you, I never forget the Nihon Shogi Renmei not knowing how to pronounce the name of their then top lady player: Takojima or Takoshima. When I phoned her to find out, she sweetly said, "You can call me anything you like."

Incidentally, it's not obvious even to Japanese people how to read the characters for Reo. Some will say Satohisa and other variants. I think the inference they draw from that is that they assume and maybe WANT it to be an ordinary Japanese name.


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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #18 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:43 am 
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It looks like there is influence of Reo Messi's fame both in the name choice and in the youtubers pronunciaton. Funny enough, Messi's name is Lionel so you can find both nicknames "Lío" and "Leo" (which normally comes from "Leonardo", a more common name in previous years, and is easier to pronounce in spanish).


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 Post subject: Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Post #19 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:31 am 
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IGS: kvasir
Leo is on his way to Korea in April.
https://www.chosun.com/english/kpop-culture-en/2024/02/27/ECVKD3IGRBDDRI3HYPKM6SXYGM/

The articles also has some info on other players that did the same, for example Onishi Ryuhei.

Take a closer look at the link, this is in the kpop section :o


This post by kvasir was liked by 2 people: Elom0, jlt
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