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 Post subject: Three crow-ettes?
Post #1 Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:00 am 
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I was checking some things about Fujisawa Hideyuki, and I was reminded (not for the first time of late) about the "three crows" of Go. And I was thinking... Care to suggest any female, or mixed, triad?

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 Post subject: Re: Three crow-ettes?
Post #2 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:27 am 
Oza

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I was checking some things about Fujisawa Hideyuki, and I was reminded (not for the first time of late) about the "three crows" of Go. And I was thinking... Care to suggest any female, or mixed, triad?


I hesitate to suggest any names. Wrong connotations for me. I used to sing a nursery rhyme (with actions) to my kids: "Three crows were sitting on the wa-a-a-a-ll - and the farmer shot one off. There were two crows..."

And of course two crows bring to mind the grim ballad of the Twa Corbies (As I was walking all alane, I heard twa corbies makkin mane; The tane unto the t’other say,
‘Where sall we gang and dine to-day?’. ‘In behint yon auld fail dyke, I wot there lies a new-slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there, But his hawk, his hound, and his lady fair.)

But it's a bit different in Japan. The ladies may not have quite made it to a trio yet, but there is the go manga Hoshizora no Karasu (Crow in the Starry Sky). It has a character called Karasuma Waka who dreams of becoming a pro. From vague memory, the other characters have bird names, in the same way Hikaru no Go characters have fish names.

It seems that Ms Karasuma may have been based on Mrs Sugiuchi 8-dan who was in the news at the time because of her age at the time the manga was written.

And with the likes of Sumire around, we might also say that the ballad could have a new lease of life, with "new-slain 9-dans."

We could also have a separate debate about whether the men should really have been called the Three Ravens and the women the Three Crows. Size matters!

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 Post subject: Re: Three crow-ettes?
Post #3 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:35 am 
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I'm ambivalent about highlighting the gender of players. On one hand, any discipline that has been traditionally male can use female role models. On the other hand it reinforces the thought that they form a less performant category, needing special treatment. It would be easier if by now the playing field had leveled in terms of gender but it hasn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Three crow-ettes?
Post #4 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:49 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
I hesitate to suggest any names. Wrong connotations for me. I used to sing a nursery rhyme (with actions) to my kids: "Three crows were sitting on the wa-a-a-a-ll - and the farmer shot one off. There were two crows..."


That song, I didn't know. The general... animus against corvids seems to be a staple, in Europe, Wotan excepted. I did consider using the Norns, but it didn't really solve it.

Quote:
there is the go manga Hoshizora no Karasu (Crow in the Starry Sky). It has a character called Karasuma Waka who dreams of becoming a pro.


I've read some of it. The... love dependency is a tad creepy, to me, but not really unusual.

Anyhow... I very much doubt Mrs. Sugiuchi has gotten any younger since.

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We could also have a separate debate about whether the men should really have been called the Three Ravens and the women the Three Crows. Size matters!


We could use magpies. Many (most?) Roman languages use a feminine for them. But that opens another can of worms.

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 Post subject: Re: Three crow-ettes?
Post #5 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:57 am 
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Knotwilg wrote:
I'm ambivalent about highlighting the gender of players. On one hand, any discipline that has been traditionally male can use female role models. On the other hand it reinforces the thought that they form a less performant category, needing special treatment. It would be easier if by now the playing field had leveled in terms of gender but it hasn't.


I despise affirmative action. And yet...

Also, I suggested mixed triads. I would actually also be satisfied with rivalries.

The... issue with either is that you need regular games between the pair/triad. And it's simply easier with participants of the same gender.

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 Post subject: Re: Three crow-ettes?
Post #6 Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 4:12 pm 
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In Latin, cornix (crow) is feminine, whereas corvus (raven) is masculine.

The three cornices of Japanese female Go seem quite obviously Rina, Asami and Sumire.

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 Post subject: Re: Three crow-ettes?
Post #7 Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:41 am 
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I see it moreso as the 6 young crows of Japanese go achieving international success, but maybe that's just me and few others

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