It is currently Wed Nov 13, 2024 10:13 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #1 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:21 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 637
Liked others: 163
Was liked: 118
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
Lee Changho and Shin Jinseo managed to get into a 3x Ko today. By the tournament rules, Myungjin, the replantejar used the remaining time. That must be quite a whiplash.

Take care

_________________
一碁一会


Last edited by Ferran on Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #2 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:21 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1769
Liked others: 180
Was liked: 492
Isn't it Shin Jinseo (instead of Minjun)?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #3 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:40 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 637
Liked others: 163
Was liked: 118
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
jlt wrote:
Isn't it Shin Jinseo (instead of Minjun)?



Yes, sorry. My brain skipped a track. Edited.

Take care

_________________
一碁一会

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #4 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:39 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 969
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 174
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
How often has this happened to Lee Changho? :scratch:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #5 Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 2:47 am 
Oza

Posts: 3698
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4660
Quote:
How often has this happened to Lee Changho? :scratch:


It has not happened before to Yi Ch'ang-ho in any of his 2,078 games in the GoGoD database.

In GoGoD there are 47 triple ko games. 37 ended as void (either replayed or counted as a tie). Others were played on except for one where a player made an illegal, move within the triple ko and so lost.

There are also a few quadruple and quintuple ko games.

On this basis the rarity of a triple ko is 47/126,000 or 1 in every 2,680 games, with a couple of caveats. One is that triple kos can occur in variations that are not actually played. The other is that I tend to collect interesting games over boring games, and triple kos count as "interesting". We can perhaps assume these caveats cancel each other out.

Also on that basis, with around 5,000 pro games being played each year at present, we should expect two visible triple kos a year on average. There were indeed two last year, with one being argued over as a possible quintuple ko.

The earliest triple ko we know of with actual moves is 1724 (i.e. well after the possibly mythical Sansa-Rigen case, but triple ko positions (given in problem collections) were known in China long before that. China also had the famous Windlass Ko game (two double kos) around 1735.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #6 Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:07 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 637
Liked others: 163
Was liked: 118
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran


If I find it, I'll post the whisplash Mickey Mouse game. Take care


Attachments:
3xKo.sgf [1.34 KiB]
Downloaded 429 times

_________________
一碁一会
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #7 Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:27 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 969
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 174
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
John Fairbairn wrote:
It has not happened before to Yi Ch'ang-ho in any of his 2,078 games in the GoGoD database.


There should at least be the exhibition game with Chang Hao that was played at the Great Wall or some similar fortification. Maybe it was a quadruple ko, maybe it needn't have been a no result if one of the players had found a better move during the game? I think there might have been a giant Go board involved.

I can't remember any other specific case, but I thought there could be more.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #8 Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:38 am 
Oza

Posts: 3698
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4660
That game was in 2005 on the largest open-air go board in the world (so conceivably the result was contrived for the vast public) to showcase the reopening of the Southern Great Wall.

It was counted as a void quadruple ko after 369 moves. Yi could have won by giving up one ko but was under sudden-death time pressure.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #9 Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 5:15 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 969
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 174
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
Ryu Shikun, 4 times Tengen and Oza, was streaming during the game. It is in Japanese and a few hours long but it might be of interest to some. There are machine translated subtitles available and the playback speed can be increased (my favorite). His fish tank is pretty cool and it looks like he streams regularly on youtube in Japanese and Korean.


Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #10 Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2024 9:01 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 637
Liked others: 163
Was liked: 118
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
The SGF at Go to Everyone's site seems to be replay.

Enjoy

_________________
一碁一会

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #11 Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:10 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 16
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 5
IIRC Lee Sedol had an unusual high rate of void games by triple and quadruple kos. It was discussed if it was a consequence of his fighting style or a strategy he displayed when things didn't go well for him.
(All of this subject to verification)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Triple Ko in Korea
Post #12 Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:42 pm 
Oza

Posts: 3698
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4660
I have three -ple kos by him, which is obviously above average. One was a triple, one was a quadruple and the other was subject to debate as to whether it was triple or quadruple.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group