I came upon something earlier this year at Sensei's that made me very sad and still does. I meant to post about it at GD at that time but I don't think I did.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?IgamiHajime

The pupils of a deceased Japanese professional retired together March this year. All in their seventies, some of them were 1-dan. Those people had played professionally without promotion for fourty or fifty years. The mere thought of such an existence fills me with the same horror as a Samuel Beckett play.

What is this a glimpse of? Did these people go out every day and lose, lose and lose year after year out of only a sense of obligation to their teacher?

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So you've got an eye?
That don't impress me much

No different than minor league baseball players, really. It isn't possible for there to be superstars without lower level people for them to dominate.

Look at the ages at which some of them became pro shodans: 28, 36, 42. These are not ordinary pros. Making pro was probably the highlight of their go careers. It is unlikely that they made a living as pros, or that they expected to do so.

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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I was hoping to hear something like that.

(I always took the "x dan in 19yz" that you see in old players' SL blurbs as meaning "known to have been" and not "promoted to".)

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So you've got an eye?
That don't impress me much

This gives me hope! Maybe I could become pro at 70 or something.

IF I could make pro, AND then live another 40 or 50 years, I'd consider myself the luckiest man alive.

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Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

With live expectancy increasing today's new pros can probably expect 70 to 80 years as a pro

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

same here

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长考出臭棋.

Would be nice to become pro nevertheless, as long as you stay realistic being old age..

What did they have to do to become pro, anyway? I mean, what kind of qualification is there for "veterans"?

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Yunzi makes the world go round, the world go round...

Until very recently promotion in professional rank in Japan, especially for low ranked players, depended on attaining a certain number of points in the rating tournament (Oteai). This could be achieved only by winning a high percentage of games out of a certain fixed number. Thus it could easily happen that a player could win, say, 52% of all games but could not put together a streak of wins long enough to win promotion. Hence life-long shodans. Such players could make a living from go, but not from tournament winnings or game fees alone. They could support themselves through teaching. Nowadays promotion can be attained simply by reaching a certain plateau of wins, though that is hard enough for low ranked players because they have fewer opportunities to play games that count.

ok, that must suck. would not harm if the nihon kiin would grant extra promotions to all players every decade as pro, to help their self esteem..

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Yunzi makes the world go round, the world go round...

This thread is overlooking several things. One is that the people concerned are mainly just lesson pros or local pros, but the Kansai Ki-in doesn't use the Nihon Ki-in's terminology.

Maybe more to the point several of the pros mentioned had their careers blighted by being the wrong age at the time of the war, and some also chose to go to university before getting a pro qualification.

There's nothing specially sad about any of it. All the players had/are having long lives.

This is a little off-topic (I would have sent a PM), but speaking of the war and pros: Would you happen to know if Tanaka Fujio fell in war? I had learned of him when looking at players who experimented with tengen openings, and he was intriguing, but he apparently passed at age 24 in 1940 and there is precious little information available about him (in English).

He died of consumption in 1940.

Had to check dictionary. Makes me wonder if young native english speakers would know what consumption refers to.

It's eating too much fast-food, right?

Wow...

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My blog about Macs and more: Kirkville

I know what it means, but (at least in the UK - I don't know about other English-speaking countries) it's considered fairly old-fashioned, if not obsolete, usage now. Indeed, this was a question in our pub quiz last week (which disease is meant by "consumption"?). We knew it, and I guess most others there probably did, but the fact it was actually asked (and it's far from an easy quiz) suggests that the term is not as widely understood as some people think.

Wow, in 1940 Japan already had McDonalds?!

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Patience, grasshopper.

Thanks daal, I needed that!

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Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21