Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

A 5D for breakfast
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4008		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  A 5D for breakfast
I watched a guy named Sunnylucky with a provisional 8D rating on KGS last night. Judging from his name and strength, I suspect that he is a Chinese pro or insei, and was playing his first game of the day. His opponent is a legitimate 5 dan, but who seemed to never really have a chance. I'm posting it because he seems to almost effortlessly keep attacking; and he seldom seems to make an overtly territorial move, but his territory just accumulates.

As of this morning Sunnylucky has played enough games to have a firm rating. It is 9D now.

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]HA[3]KM[0.50]TM[300]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
PW[SunnyLucky]PB[mustsee]WR[8d]BR[5d]DT[2011-06-09]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]AB[pd][dp][pp]RE[W+8.50]
;W[dc]WL[293.671]C[mustsee [5d\]: hi
]
;B[df]BL[297.07]C[SunnyLucky [8d?\]: hi
]
;W[ch]WL[279.966]
;B[dd]BL[291.581]
;W[ed]WL[276.876]
;B[cc]BL[289.904]
;W[cb]WL[272.4]
;B[cd]BL[286.573]
;W[eb]WL[270.435]
;B[ee]BL[285.136]
;W[fd]WL[269.35]
;B[bf]BL[283.187]
;W[ck]WL[266.602]
;B[cm]BL[276.368]
;W[jq]WL[260.414]
;B[dq]BL[266.712]
;W[nq]WL[257.457]
;B[qn]BL[264.569]
;W[qf]WL[256.016]
;B[qh]BL[261.569]
;W[ph]WL[246.939]
;B[pi]BL[257.991]
;W[pg]WL[235.702]
;B[qj]BL[238.379]
;W[nd]WL[233.161]
;B[re]BL[219.478]
;W[pc]WL[218.696]
;B[qc]BL[214.297]
;W[oc]WL[217.164]
;B[qb]BL[199.397]
;W[gf]WL[213.942]
;B[ne]BL[155.486]
;W[me]WL[204.667]
;B[oe]BL[151.687]
;W[mf]WL[201.717]
;B[md]BL[136.599]
;W[mc]WL[199.767]
;B[jf]BL[116.163]
;W[ld]WL[196.581]
;B[jh]BL[110.725]
;W[jj]WL[191.378]
;B[jd]BL[105.815]
;W[ig]WL[179.854]
;B[jg]BL[102.539]
;W[li]WL[177.275]
;B[hd]BL[94.647]
;W[fe]WL[171.542]
;B[lg]BL[84.05]
;W[ef]WL[162.033]
;B[bh]BL[66.57]
;W[cg]WL[156.426]
;B[bg]BL[65.081]
;W[bi]WL[153.859]
;B[cf]BL[57.655]
;W[oi]WL[135.877]
;B[mg]BL[28.512]
;W[nf]WL[126.636]
;B[rf]BL[16.678]
;W[pj]WL[118.107]
;B[qi]BL[14.6]
;W[pk]WL[117.317]
;B[mi]BL[6.26]
;W[mj]WL[114.162]
;B[ni]BL[4.145]
;W[nj]WL[112.806]
;B[oh]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[oj]WL[111.079]
;B[ng]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[og]WL[100.427]
;B[nh]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[pe]WL[95.19]
;B[qe]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[lh]WL[90.086]
;B[pf]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[of]WL[88.045]
;B[kc]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ic]WL[77.908]
;B[id]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[hb]WL[68.588]
;B[lf]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ke]WL[62.437]
;B[le]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[kd]WL[46.143]
;B[qg]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[md]WL[43.982]
;B[hf]BL[30]OB[4]
;W[jc]WL[39.145]
;B[hi]BL[30]OB[4]
;W[hg]WL[22.777]
;B[ji]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ij]WL[20.764]
;B[hh]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[de]WL[18.74]
;B[eg]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[fh]WL[7.724]
;B[kj]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[kk]WL[3.849]
;B[hj]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[bc]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[bd]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[bb]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[di]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[ci]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[dg]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[gh]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ei]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[fj]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[dk]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[gj]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[hk]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[dl]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ek]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[cl]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[fl]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[gl]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[gk]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[fk]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[el]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[dm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[en]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[gm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[gn]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[hn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ki]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[lj]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[jk]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[jl]WL[30]OW[5]C[deop [1d\]: j8
]
;B[il]BL[30]OB[3]
;W[im]WL[30]OW[5]C[Goreon [2d\]: j7
deop [1d\]: :)
deop [1d\]: now black is black :)
]
;B[hl]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[hm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[kl]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ik]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[jm]BL[30]OB[2]C[Sheeple [1k\]: megako
]
;W[jn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[jk]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[fn]WL[30]OW[5]C[akropiv [5k\]: but whit have mege thread :)
]
;B[em]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[jl]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[fg]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[km]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[gg]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[co]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[do]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[bp]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[cn]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[dn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[bo]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[cp]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[bq]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[bn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[cq]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ao]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[pr]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[or]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[oq]BL[30]OB[2]C[Sheeple [1k\]: clean win for w
Goreon [2d\]: gg
]
;W[nr]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[np]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[mp]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[mo]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[qq]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[pq]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[no]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[op]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[lp]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[nn]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[fq]WL[30]OW[5]C[Imvatim [2k\]: q5 better than p2?
]
;B[fo]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[go]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[fp]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[gq]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[lo]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ql]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[os]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[mq]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[gc]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[gb]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[fc]BL[30]OB[2]C[pjpj: o2, e2
]
;W[ec]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[na]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[pa]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[pb]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ob]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[oa]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ma]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[nb]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[mb]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[qa]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[rn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ro]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[rm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[kb]BL[30]OB[2]C[Sheeple [1k\]: man that's big
]
;W[ns]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ps]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[pn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[po]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[qm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[qo]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[on]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[oo]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[nm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[mm]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[nl]WL[30]OW[5]C[pjpj: a3, s9
]
;B[kp]BL[30]OB[2]C[pjpj: this seems bigger
]
;W[ko]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[kq]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[jp]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[hc]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ib]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[fb]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[fa]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[kr]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[lr]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ga]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ha]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ja]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[lb]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[od]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[jb]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[nc]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[lc]WL[30]OW[5]C[pjpj: j2?
]
;B[er]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[fr]WL[30]OW[5]C[Goreon [2d\]: j2 still eyeless
]
;B[gp]BL[30]OB[2]C[Valentine [-\]: n1..
black99 [9k\]: this is getting boring
]
;W[hp]WL[30]OW[5]C[Goreon [2d\]: boring???
ManInMe [5k\]: then leave
stoneder [3k\]: j14?
Goreon [2d\]: gg imho
black99 [9k\]: it seems b'spushing w
]
;B[ka]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[la]WL[30]OW[5]C[Sheeple [1k\]: it's very close
Goreon [2d\]: yes close
]
;B[hr]BL[30]OB[2]C[Goreon [2d\]: j2ß
]
;W[hq]WL[30]OW[5]C[Goreon [2d\]: oh
]
;B[jr]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ir]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[is]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[iq]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ls]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ms]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[js]BL[30]OB[2]C[Valentine [-\]: if b n1 earlier
]
;W[ks]WL[30]OW[5]C[Imvatim [2k\]: lol n1 was the move
Goreon [2d\]: m8 or s9 bigger?
pjpj: yup
]
;B[ea]BL[30]OB[2]C[Sheeple [1k\]: ? this is super success
Goreon [2d\]: smLL
]
;W[da]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ls]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[dh]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[eh]BL[30]OB[2]
;W[ks]WL[30]OW[5]C[Zairex [1d\]: hanami
]
;B[bm]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[bl]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ls]BL[30]OB[1]C[Goreon [2d\]: i think w messed up a winning game
]
;W[so]WL[30]OW[5]C[Sheeple [1k\]: looks like it
black99 [9k\]: y, thats what imean boring\\
]
;B[lq]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ks]WL[30]OW[5]C[black99 [9k\]: w messed up
]
;B[je]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[hs]WL[30]OW[5]C[Zairex [1d\]: nice
Sheeple [1k\]: don't be a chicken b
Imvatim [2k\]: eeeek
]
;B[sp]BL[30]OB[1]C[Sheeple [1k\]: hehe
Sheeple [1k\]: lucky
Zairex [1d\]: 8D
]
;W[ia]WL[30]OW[5]C[Goreon [2d\]: wooo
Imvatim [2k\]: awww
pjpj: geee
]
;B[ll]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ln]WL[30]OW[5]C[Sheeple [1k\]: got rid of the ko for nothing at all. so wow
]
;B[mn]BL[30]OB[1]C[Troglodyte [2k\]: S4 still a prob?
]
;W[ml]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[lm]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[lk]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[kn]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[kf]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[kg]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ln]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[no]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[rp]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[sn]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[sq]WL[30]OW[5]C[Sheeple [1k\]: the answer is yes :)
DaKing123 [6k\]: another lifechanging ko
]
;B[rr]BL[30]OB[1]C[Sheeple [1k\]: w back in the saddle
Sheeple [1k\]: or as black99 would say, boring :)
]
;W[so]WL[30]OW[5]C[ManInMe [5k\]: XD
Troglodyte [2k\]: Black99 must have interesting non-go life
]
;B[sr]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[he]WL[30]OW[5]C[Imvatim [2k\]: couldn't blak just nobi when ws4?
]
;B[if]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[sm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[rq]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[rk]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[rj]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[eq]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[dr]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[aq]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ar]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ap]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[bj]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[cj]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ai]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[br]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[qp]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[sj]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[si]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[sk]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ff]BL[30]OB[1]C[pjpj: b2
Sheeple [1k\]: w+5 or so
pjpj: b1
]
;W[ge]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ee]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[sn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[sp]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ef]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ii]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[jk]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ee]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ri]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[rh]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ef]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[kn]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ee]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[jm]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ce]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[be]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[km]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[om]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[pm]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[jm]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ep]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[eo]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[km]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[fm]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[gn]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[jm]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[dj]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ej]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[km]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[bs]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[as]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[jm]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[cs]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[km]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[cr]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ac]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ab]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ad]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[ak]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[aj]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[am]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[fs]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[gs]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[es]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[bk]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[ah]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[qk]WL[30]OW[5]
;B[]BL[30]OB[1]
;W[]WL[30]OW[5]TW[aa][ba][ca][ea][ga][ja][ka][db][kb][kc][mk][nk][ok][al][ol][pl][rl][sl][bm][cm][om][an][cn][in][bo][ho][io][jo][ip][kp][kq][lq][ar][gr][hr][jr][kr][mr][bs][is][js][ls]TB[pa][ra][sa][ob][rb][sb][oc][pc][rc][sc][qd][rd][sd][ae][pe][se][af][qf][sf][ag][hg][ig][rg][sg][fh][gh][ih][sh][fi][gi][ri][fj][gj][fk][ln][rp][qq][sq][qr][qs][rs][ss]C[mustsee [5d\]: thnx
SunnyLucky [8d?\]: thx
])[/sgf-full]
Author:  Toge [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Interesting game. I sometimes have grim thoughts that some of the high dans on KGS who only play a couple of games and leave it there are really amateurs with inflated ranks or lucky winning sprees. Let's hope SunnyLucky will stick around.
Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
black is not legit 5d.
i think he plays like 3d.
too many kyuish mistakes by black...white didnt have to do anything to win.

edit:
pro or insei can give that persone 5 stone and probably win
Author:  illluck [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
@magicwand: some of black's moves felt off to me too, but then I noticed the time limit :p
Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
illluck wrote:
@magicwand: some of black's moves felt off to me too, but then I noticed the time limit :p

yea..i didnt see that.. good catch.
but..with that time limit i still would have played better game than that.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Regardless of time limit, Black's fuseki was terrible.
Author:  perceval [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
omg magicwand and RJasiek just agreed on something.
World peace is at hand
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
And kghin demoted him to 8D again ^^ Killed half the board.
Author:  shapenaji [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
RJasiek

well, N16 was bad, but the rest of the fuseki seemed fine.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Bad B moves:

B14 D3 R12 S15? P15 N16 K16 S14

Bad B strategy:

not using handicap well

allowing big W top moyo
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Another provisional 8D popped up yesterday evening, named Milkpiao. He is now unbeaten in 9 games ( including giving JoeyHung 2 stones ) and plays from a Shanghai-based IP.
He is not SunnyLucky, who plays from a Taiwan IP, and who was playing simultaneously.
Author:  Hsiang [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Joaz -- Is it okay to out the private info of players like you do? Many, like myself, prefer to play privately for our own reasons, and I for one sure don't want you to come out and say this account's IP is from Rochester, New York. Please, at least check with us before you publicize any info about our IP. -- Come to think of it, I am not even sure it is appropriate for you to CHECK the IP or any other derivatives of any KGS accounts without cause.
Author:  Li Kao [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Is Joaz a kgs admin? Or did some admin post that info in kibitz?

But in general information about IPs shouldn't be published.
Author:  Redundant [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
All the information joaz gave was publicly available on the profiles. Sunnylucky has his language set to Taiwan, and Milkpiao has an email address with a Shanghai based website on his.
Author:  hyperpape [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Redundant wrote:
All the information joaz gave was publicly available on the profiles. Sunnylucky has his language set to Taiwan, and Milkpiao has an email address with a Shanghai based website on his.
It's the mention of IPs that's surprising, but Joaz can tell us what he did/meant.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Hsiang wrote:
Joaz -- Is it okay to out the private info of players like you do? Many, like myself, prefer to play privately for our own reasons, and I for one sure don't want you to come out and say this account's IP is from Rochester, New York. Please, at least check with us before you publicize any info about our IP. -- Come to think of it, I am not even sure it is appropriate for you to CHECK the IP or any other derivatives of any KGS accounts without cause.


Please check with KGS before making such assumptions. Not to be redundant, but...

Redundant wrote:
All the information joaz gave was publicly available on the profiles. Sunnylucky has his language set to Taiwan, and Milkpiao has an email address with a Shanghai based website on his.


Errr...wait...I can't be redundant. We have different IPs.

hyperpape wrote:
...It's the mention of IPs that's surprising, but Joaz can tell us what he did/meant.

It should not surprising if you note the context of the information. We have two stong guys appearing on KGS within a week of each other. One zooms up to the rather exclusive 9D category ( although now down to 8.6 ), and the other is hot on his heels with an even better record. Doesn't anyone else get curious about who these guys are, and why they choose to play on KGS, and might there be more ( or are they the same guy )?
I did. And that is the subtext of this entire thread.
Author:  yoyoma [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Joaz can you just be plain and tell us if you misspoke when you said where the IP they play from is based? Redundant is talking about the language of the client and the email. Neither of these have anything to do with their IP, which is what people are upset about.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
I REPEAT: ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS PUBLIC.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. But please quit making assumptions until you have the facts. BTW, one does not have to know the IP to know that they are different.
Author:  yoyoma [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I REPEAT: ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS PUBLIC.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. But please quit making assumptions until you have the facts. BTW, one does not have to know the IP to know that they are different.


How do you find where the IP a player on KGS is based from? I didn't think it was possible.

ETA: I'm still assuming we're dealing with a simple misunderstanding that Joaz looked at SunnyLucky's info, saw "Client version: Chinese (Taiwan)", and from that is saying that SunnyLucky "plays from a Taiwan IP". Which is not true, *anyone* can set their client to use that language locale. A common misconception from the fact that it puts a locale in parenthesis there.
Author:  hyperpape [ Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A 5D for breakfast
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I REPEAT: ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS PUBLIC.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. But please quit making assumptions until you have the facts. BTW, one does not have to know the IP to know that they are different.
You're being a donkey*. If you didn't do anything to look up their IP addresses, then just say that. But by mentioning their IPs, you naturally gave people the impression that you looked up their IP addresses, which would be weird.

(Also, I think you can sign up for different clients regardless of your actual location. I could be wrong about that).

* I forget what we decided was sayable after the great Fairbairn wars.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/