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| My favorite pro game, period. http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9664 |
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| Author: | KenPruitt [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:03 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | My favorite pro game, period. | ||
This game, played in 1988, is my favorite pro game. Why? Because literally everything I know about my current play style comes from this game. I can't get the SGF thing to work. For some reason, it keeps saying INVALID GAME DATA RECEIVED. 
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| Author: | Kirby [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
I don't know why you are getting the invalid game data error. I just did the following: * Download your file, without modifying it * Opened it in a text editor * Pasted the contents into this message * Added "[ sgf ]" above it (without spaces) * Added "[ / sgf ]" below it (without spaces) Works fine, doesn't it? |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
Easier is to just paste the SGF url (download/file.php?id=4031) between sgf forum tags: For a new post, upload the file, then preview the post to get the correct url. |
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| Author: | Monadology [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
KenPruitt wrote: This game, played in 1988, is my favorite pro game. Why? Because literally everything I know about my current play style comes from this game. I can't get the SGF thing to work. For some reason, it keeps saying INVALID GAME DATA RECEIVED. Did you discover this game in the Master Play series volume about Takemiya? I'd heard some about Takemiya before but when I read that book years ago I fell in love with his style! If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it. This game is the first one commented on. |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
This is a side note, but I also find the SGF upload a little surprising in its behavior: viewtopic.php?p=156717&f=5#p156717. |
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| Author: | KenPruitt [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
Monadology wrote: KenPruitt wrote: This game, played in 1988, is my favorite pro game. Why? Because literally everything I know about my current play style comes from this game. I can't get the SGF thing to work. For some reason, it keeps saying INVALID GAME DATA RECEIVED. Did you discover this game in the Master Play series volume about Takemiya? I'd heard some about Takemiya before but when I read that book years ago I fell in love with his style! If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it. This game is the first one commented on. I bought that book years ago because I was told that I play like Takemiya. Of course, I didn't know who Takemiya was, neither had I seen any of his games. When I saw that book available for purchase, I immediately bought it. My play improved DRASTICALLY, and by drastically I mean by about 3 - 4 stones just from reading that book. |
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| Author: | macelee [ Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
This game is famous - it is the final game of the 1st Fujitsu Cup. |
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| Author: | Knotwilg [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
Great players are always a source of inspiration. Takemiya is probably most cited as such a source because his game is very different from most other pros. He prefers influence over territory to the extreme because the added loss in each exchange becomes a win when combined into an overall thickness. Most amateurs take this inspiration only so far that they get confirmation for their preference for big central moyos. And this is very much okay. I think it is a great way to learn why big central moyos, when built single mindedly, are a losing strategy. The next level to learn from Takemiya is why he can still win with this apparent losing strategy. How can his moyos become so enormous, or so thick, that they yield enough territory after invasion or cannot even be invaded? What kind of pressure does he exert in the exchanges leading to his 4 square influence? What compromises does he make? How does he do this with White? Then there's all the technique and reading underneath this strategy. It is interesting to see that few people claim they play like Park Jungwan, or even Lee Sedol or Gu Li, or any pro other than Takemiya, because their game doesn't lead to any such kind of superficial comparison. Below amateur 5 dan, people who think they play like Takemiya are more likely to play a single minded central moyo game. From 5 dan onward, people are strong enough to know they don't play like him, and the vast majority even don't try. Still a great source of inspiration! |
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| Author: | KenPruitt [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
Knotwilg wrote: Great players are always a source of inspiration. Takemiya is probably most cited as such a source because his game is very different from most other pros. He prefers influence over territory to the extreme because the added loss in each exchange becomes a win when combined into an overall thickness. Most amateurs take this inspiration only so far that they get confirmation for their preference for big central moyos. And this is very much okay. I think it is a great way to learn why big central moyos, when built single mindedly, are a losing strategy. The next level to learn from Takemiya is why he can still win with this apparent losing strategy. How can his moyos become so enormous, or so thick, that they yield enough territory after invasion or cannot even be invaded? What kind of pressure does he exert in the exchanges leading to his 4 square influence? What compromises does he make? How does he do this with White? Then there's all the technique and reading underneath this strategy. It is interesting to see that few people claim they play like Park Jungwan, or even Lee Sedol or Gu Li, or any pro other than Takemiya, because their game doesn't lead to any such kind of superficial comparison. Below amateur 5 dan, people who think they play like Takemiya are more likely to play a single minded central moyo game. From 5 dan onward, people are strong enough to know they don't play like him, and the vast majority even don't try. Still a great source of inspiration! The reason he's able to do so is very obvious. Takemiya doesn't set out to create a moyo from the start. Instead, he lets his moyo develop naturally with the natural give and take of the stones. |
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| Author: | oiseaux [ Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
This is a fascinating game and you can clearly see Takemiya's style at work. As an SDK it certainly doesn't excite me to start trying to idly build center moyos and pretend I have a 'style', but it is a solid lesson in how to build influence and calmly play influential moves despite the ever-present desire to try and cash in territory on the corners and sides. Patience and confidence in your moves - play the moves you WANT to play. |
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| Author: | tekesta [ Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
The more things one learns in Go, the more options there are. I could play like Takemiya Masaki or Pak Jeonghwan, but would I be able to apply effectively their style of play against a wide range of opponents? If I had their experience and powers of analysis, yes. Takemiya is one of the masters of influence-based play, but for some reason I think games by Huang Longshi are better for those wanting to know how to use outward influence effectively, even though the style of play typical of Go in 18th-century China has been obsolete for some time. Perhaps it's the violent style of play found in games from that period that I find attractive. Takemiya's style has a "tai chi" feel to it, which would be a good reason for me to learn more about it. Also, in old China almost all games of Go began with a tasukiboshi (crossed star point) opening, which often presented the need for fighting to make up for the diluted outward influence. Would it be possible for a pro player of today to adopt such a style of play in tournaments? |
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| Author: | Dante31 [ Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
Takemiya is famous for his cosmic style, but I haven't seen a lot of other people that are willing to risk playing this style. |
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| Author: | Pippen [ Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
I'd be interested in 4D+ to show us their favorite/most influential pro games. |
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| Author: | wineandgolover [ Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
Pippen wrote: I'd be interested in 4D+ to show us their favorite/most influential pro games. Or 3D- 
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| Author: | Pippen [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
4d+ means "4d or higher rank" in my language.^^ |
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| Author: | gowan [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My favorite pro game, period. |
Takemiya included this game in his two volume collection Uchuu Ryuu, Takemiya Masaki Kaikyoku Sen (Cosmic Style, A Selection of Enjoyable Games by Takemiya Masaki, ISBN 978-4-905689-07-2). I think this game is famous because it was the deciding game for one of the very first "world championships". In fact, judging by Takemiya's comments, Takemiya's play didn't overwhelm Rin exactly. Takemiya identifies White 50 as a bad move and points out a fairly simple five move sequence at that point that would have left Black (Takemiya) with a painful game. Also, Takemiya identifies White 60 as the losing move and gives a four move sequence that would have left the players with equal chances from that point. |
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