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Offline Li Kao
 Post subject: SDK problem from KGS
Post #1 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:16 pm 
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From a game I recently observed on KGS:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black to move
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ . . . X . . . . O X . . .
$$ . . X . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . X O . O X . X . .
$$ . . . . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

While at first glance it looked alive I read a ko. Hope I didn't miss some sequence which makes white live :scratch:
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
PW[White]PB[Black]AW[ja][kb][hc][ic][jc][hd][jd][he][ie][je]AB[fb][lb][ec][gc][kc][gd][kd][md][ge][ke][hf][if][jf]
;B[la]
(;W[ha]
;B[ka]
;W[ib]
;B[jb]
;W[gb]
;B[ia])
(;W[ib]
;B[ka]
(;W[gb]
;B[ga]
;W[ha]
;B[hb])
(;W[hb]
;B[ha]
;W[gb]
;B[ga]))
(;W[hb]
;B[jb]
;W[ib]
;B[ka]
(;W[ha]
;B[jb])
(;W[gb]
;B[ga]
;W[ha]
;B[jb]))
(;W[gb]
;B[ka]
(;W[ib]
;B[ga]
;W[ha]
;B[hb])
(;W[ha]
;B[jb]
;W[ib]
;B[ia])))[/sgf-full]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: SDK problem from KGS
Post #2 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Hidden from those who want to treat it as a status problem:

Unless I'm mistaken, white is unconditionally dead if black moves first.


IOW Li Kao missed some things ^^

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Offline Li Kao
 Post subject: Re: SDK problem from KGS
Post #3 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:58 pm 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken, white is unconditionally dead if black moves first.

I didn't read very careful for black since I was happy to find at least a ko. Some other observers thought it had a real eye there, so I read mainly to disprove life. Guess I need to read again for black^^

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: SDK problem from KGS
Post #4 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:24 pm 
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I must be missing something too, because I also read it as ko.
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Offline Sverre
 Post subject: Re: SDK problem from KGS
Post #5 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:36 pm 
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I also read out a ko. I can't find a way for Black to kill unconditionally.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B I believe this B1 fails, 5 and 6 are miai
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ . . . . 4 1 . O 6 3 . . .
$$ . . . X 5 2 . . O X . . .
$$ . . X . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . X O . O X . X . .
$$ . . . . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B1 and a are both defeated easily.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ . . . . 1 . . O . . . . .
$$ . . . X . a 2 . O X . . .
$$ . . X . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . X O . O X . X . .
$$ . . . . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


That leaves only this :b1:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Doesn't white make ko here?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ . . . . . 2 . O 3 1 . . .
$$ . . . X . . 4 . O X . . .
$$ . . X . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . X O . O X . X . .
$$ . . . . X O O O X . . . .
$$ . . . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Offline Koroviev
 Post subject: Re: SDK problem from KGS
Post #6 Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:06 am 
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Tried hard on this and can't find a move for black that gets better than a ko? :scratch:
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