Prokovich game

Magicwand · **#241**

dfan wrote:

:w50: was criticized in the commentary as being too heavy, and a was suggested as an alternative.

i strongly disagree with that commentary.
i am known to be hardheaded when i was sdk now i will be hard headed again.
in my opinion 'a' is too thin and will give black thickness in the middle.

just because one professional made the comment it doesnt mean you should believe them.
free your mind and play your game. if they are right then you will learn out of experience and will make you strong.
if you just try to accept everything they say then you will always be a paper tiger and will never learn.

conclusion: in the game of go one needs to be hardheaded sometime to become a stronger player.

dfan · **#242**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm51 ACTUAL GAME: Move 51 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Harleqin · **#243**

Well, this shows the heavyness. It is impossible to connect here now. I think I would play something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With the proposed extension, White would have more satisfying answers to the peep, e.g.:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz Banbeck · **#244**

I would play like this, with the same general idea but with a slight eastward bias.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It prevents the cut just as easily:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 2 O O C . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...but also aims to oppose the hane at G11.

Whenever two opposing groups face each other like this, both want to hane around the ends. Black wants this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | B O O O O O B . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The lower hane, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | C C C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | C C C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 4 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 1 O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | 3 X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...does not greatly trouble white, for he was never planning on making territory in the marked area because of the black shimari up top. It is a yose move that costs white no points.

But the upper hane bothers white a lot more. It threatens to prevent his escape to the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 7 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B 6 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So, my prediction:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

dfan · **#245**

Since both the move played and the alternative mentioned in the commentary have already been noted, I'll move ahead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 ACTUAL GAME: Move 52 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc VARIATION $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 2 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 O O 5 O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No opinion is offered of whether this would be better than the game.

Joaz Banbeck · **#246**

dfan wrote:

...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc VARIATION $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 2 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 O O 5 O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No opinion is offered of whether this would be better than the game.

Did they say if was better than :w3:

like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 2 X 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 4 O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

..or this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Black can't cut - ladders work both ways. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 2 X 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm with MW: the commentary is not too illuminating. The game itself is fascinating, once you get an idea of the player's goals and plans.

dfan · **#247**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

dfan wrote:

No opinion is offered of whether this would be better than the game.

Did they say if was better than :w3:

like this? [diagram]
...or this? [diagram]

Nope.

Quote:

I'm with MW: the commentary is not too illuminating.

I agree, though to me it is true of most pro game commentary. With a few exceptions, commentaries on pro go games mostly go over my head. This is in contrast to chess, where although of course I can't play like a pro I can at least understand what's going on in a grandmaster game if it's well commented. I do have an advantage in chess in that I'm stronger than I am in go (probably the equivalent of 1 dan), but it seems like being 1 dan doesn't necessarily make the commentaries much better!

I have enjoyed Invincible, The 1971 Honinbo Tournament, and John Fairbairn's recent books. I have heard good things about Yuan Zhou's pro books, and his two books on his own games are outstanding; I have probably learned much more about how to play go from reading about his 7d games than from reading about 9p games.

Quote:

The game itself is fascinating, once you get an idea of the player's goals and plans.

Yeah, and I'm really enjoying seeing the people here try to figure out what's going on. In many ways it's much more illuminating than the pro commentary.

Marcus · **#248**

dfan wrote:

Quote:

The game itself is fascinating, once you get an idea of the player's goals and plans.

Yeah, and I'm really enjoying seeing the people here try to figure out what's going on. In many ways it's much more illuminating than the pro commentary.

Yes, indeed. I have not added much to the analysis (I'm definitely better with intuition than reading at the moment), but reading the ideas from different players is giving me a better idea into full board analysis.

dfan · **#249**

Marcus wrote:

I have not added much to the analysis (I'm definitely better with intuition than reading at the moment), but reading the ideas from different players is giving me a better idea into full board analysis.

Please feel free to suggest moves! I'm not expecting anyone here to be able to reliably predict a pro's move, but just looking at the board, saying "Well, as a 4k I would play here for this reason", and then seeing what the pro does instead is educational and interesting.

Besides, I'm not going to reveal the next move until someone suggests one

emeraldemon · **#250**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 My guess $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O b O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks good for black to me.

Joaz Banbeck · **#251**

emeraldemon wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 My guess $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O b O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks good for black to me.

There is no way that white will play 54 like that. His direction of play is east, not north. If black does indeed play 53, white will either connect or play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O b O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But black does not want to back up the placement at 51. It has done its job. It turned a possible 2-eye shape like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...into a 1-eye shape like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So now black is going to resume attacking:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O b O O 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Note that the hane reinstates the threat to cut from the peep:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 White does not have time to cut at E9 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 0 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 6 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 4 O O 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

mitsun · **#252**

emeraldemon wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm52 My guess $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O b O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks good for black to me.

This is good for black locally, but locally B has an advantage of several stones and hence is entitled to a superior result. W is still paying off the debt he incurred by making a big capture below. I think W can afford to give up territory here to preserve center strength.

hyperpape · **#253**

Mitsun: can you (or anyone else who thinks this is ok for white) post a continuation?

Magicwand · **#254**

white exchange of 1 and 2 is bad move.
if white wants the merit of that exchange...he has to play at 'a'
after that i dont know.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

dfan · **#255**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm53 ACTUAL GAME: Move 53 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Chew Terr · **#256**

I think white is going to start the fight preemptively with a hane.

mitsun · **#257**

I think the hane at a would be an overplay (B just cuts), so I would simply play W1, leaving a and b as miai. If B cuts and captures four stones, W gets to squeeze. If B extends, W can connect, then regard W1 as a forcing move, giving up two stones if B later cuts them off. This would still be a difficult fight for W, but it looks playable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O b O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Chew Terr · **#258**

Hmm, I thought that black could not cut immediately after the hane, making the fight more interesting. However, I may have misread...

dfan · **#259**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm54 ACTUAL GAME: Move 54 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#260**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm55 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this is only move i can see that is possible.

Prokovich game

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