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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #461 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:40 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm106 ACTUAL GAME: Move 106. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #462 Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:34 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm107 ACTUAL GAME: Move 107. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X 1 . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline ethanb
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #463 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:57 am 
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Sente - white has to defend E5 somehow.
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #464 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:37 am 
Gosei

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Yep.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm108 ACTUAL GAME: Move 108. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now that we're clearly in yose, time for another poll about who's winning.
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #465 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:43 am 
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I want black to win, but I think white's slightly ahead? That's just estimation though, not counting.

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Offline gaius
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #466 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:42 am 
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According to my count, white is solidly ahead, by more than 5 points (even counting the fact that it's black's move). In fact, given that this is a professional game, maybe they would even call it "game over". Which is interesting, because not so long ago I had the feeling black wasn't doing bad at all.

Of course, since then, white's center group has been 100% solidified with points, whereas black's center area now looks much smaller than it did then. But still...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #467 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:22 am 
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i really didnt count but i still think black is ahead

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Offline mitsun
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #468 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:21 am 
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I think W has been ahead for a long time. By my count, W now leads on the board, even without komi.
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Offline robinz
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #469 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:28 am 
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Wow - I'm really bad at counting the score during a game (which is part of the reason I don't do it enough), so it's reassuring to see that 4/5-dans can't even agree about who's winning in a given board position :)
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #470 Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:09 pm 
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robinz wrote:
Wow - I'm really bad at counting the score during a game (which is part of the reason I don't do it enough), so it's reassuring to see that 4/5-dans can't even agree about who's winning in a given board position :)


it is not that we can not count...it is that i am too lazy and dont have time to count accurately.
i recounted and i confirm that white is ahead by about 5 points because it is black's turn.

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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #471 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:43 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm109 ACTUAL GAME: Move 109. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #472 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:19 pm 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm110 ACTUAL GAME: Move 110. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . 1 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline gaius
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #473 Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:58 am 
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Ouch, there goes black's little area... My endgame is really not good enough for accurate predictions, but maybe something like this now?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm111
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . 4 . . , X . . |
$$ | . 6 . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | 5 . . X . X O . . . . 7 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . O . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O X . . . . . . X O 3 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #474 Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:17 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 ACTUAL GAME: Move 111. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X 1 . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline gaius
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #475 Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:33 am 
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This is sente - white will now bamboo I suppose. dfan, if there is a sente exchange like this, maybe you could just upload a few moves in one go (especially with sente exchanges); it'll help speed up the game. In an endgame like this, writing comments at every single move is just too much...

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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #476 Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:32 am 
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One problem is that at my level, it's not always obvious just how sente a move is and whether the opponent has to make a real decision about whether to answer it or not. But if it is super-obvious, I'll try to post pairs, and if someone guesses the move I'll update early.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm112 ACTUAL GAME: Move 112. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X X 1 O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #477 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:01 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm113 ACTUAL GAME: Moves 113-114. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . 2 1 . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X X O O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #478 Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:29 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm115 ACTUAL GAME: Moves 115. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . O X . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X X O O X . 1 . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Harleqin
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #479 Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Heh, that was sente? I did not see that. :blackeye:

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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Prokovich game
Post #480 Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:40 am 
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According to the commentary, here's why Black played b115:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc If B omits 115
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . O X . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O 1 2 . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X X O O X 4 3 . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . 7 . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X 6 5 X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Back to the actual game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm116 ACTUAL GAME: Move 116. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 1 . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . O X . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X X O O X . X . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess that's better than the monkey jump?
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