Here is a trick play which I learned a few years ago, probably on this forum or godiscussions.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c A joseki?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Does anyone know how to deal with it? I actually can't find anything that works early in the game (later, it's alright for W to take the corner, but I'm not sure how good that is early.) Tenuki is my best idea.

Just take the ponnuki and accept the forcing moves is also possible: yes it's following black's plan, but you get strong and the corner still has some aji in it.

Josekipedia shows some variations.

_________________
be immersed

What's the trick?

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

The trick is that White shouldn't push into the elephant's jump;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c A joseki?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 6 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

8 as an extension leaves pretty bad aji. Uberdude, I think I agree with you now, but I'm still curious if anyone can find a sharp refutation. That move looks so ridiculous!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 4 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 2 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 7 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What's wrong with this? White has a strong group, pretty much unassailable and black has nothing to get excited about. Don't forget, black played first in this corner, so if white ends up with sente after another black more there is nothing wrong with black getting about ten points more for their combined efforts. If black plays tenuki now there is plenty for white to take advantage of.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Ironically, I learnt it two days ago, and I must say that I "liked" black, although not thinking black is better. Maybe the person who showed this as a trick play slightly preferred white? Looks like joseki anyway, so used it why is it a "trick play" ?

_________________
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.

This reminds me about a Formula 1 proverb: "You can't win the race on the first corner."

Exceptions allowed.

Cheers,
Vesa

Hi Vesa,

It's nice to know these proverbs show up everywhere,
and they are all so full of traps (exceptions).

Good position for White. As anyone who's studied this shape in ancient Chinese games can say, it's a treasure trove of aji and forcing moves for White -- even with a followup move by Black.

This play was covered in the latest Japanese Go World by Oya Kouichi 9p. I'll try to summarize a few parts of it when I have some more time later.

For anyone who wants to read directly,
https://e-gobooks.nihonkiin.or.jp/produ ... ct_id=2042