Can you quickly show why
cannot be D1 in your last diagram?
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| Corner from game http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12140 |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Corner from game |
What should white have done here? In the game white lost the corner and resigned: White 4 @ 5 easily lives, but I'm sure white wanted the most points possible. It looks like playing the hane instead of solid connect might work, but maybe there's an attack I'm missing: This way black captures 2 stones, so maybe it's actually worse? |
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| Author: | Loons [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Can you quickly show why cannot be D1 in your last diagram?
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Loons wrote: Can you quickly show why cannot be D1 in your last diagram?Mainly because D1 is occupied. If you meant E1 then : |
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| Author: | Loons [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Oh, yes, that potential ko is a picnic for black. Edit: However, white took sente against living with points in DrStraw's diagram. Versus... Living in gote with ~3 points in emeraldemon's second diagram. Emeraldemon's last diagram is slightly harder for me to count. White has... Five points in gote? Edit edit : Which is to say, DrStraw's position ends leaving a 4 point gote after white's implicit last move. Eight. I should really count in a consistent and comparable way. Is it actually worth 2 points for white? |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Now I'm more confused. Isn't the line in DrStraw's diagram seki? Is there a ko I'm missing? |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
emeraldemon wrote: Now I'm more confused. Isn't the line in DrStraw's diagram seki? Is there a ko I'm missing? Yes, it is seki. |
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| Author: | Loons [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Did I turn into a DDK? Bottom left is unsettled. White has lived in gote, and there are eight points in gote at stake. Picnic (ish) ko for black. White would have needed an unremoveable ko threat. |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
I assumed that W would play as in your second diagram and B would capture, giving seki. In the third diagram B just connects with 7 and it reverts. |
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| Author: | Loons [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Oh, yes, sorry, the implicit and  made it slightly unclear to me, also because was gote it shouldn't be implicitly played? What does 7... connect revert to? Wait, I will make some coffee, and hopefully begin reading sensibly.
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| Author: | Loons [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
White has lived in gote with ... what, 6 points? But black would not play this way. Using some consistent kind of counting, Emeraldemon's last diagram was worth 2 1/2 points, and the solid connect turned out to be worth 2 points, where solidly connecting was worth 1 1/2 (just over) points. Possibly I need to go back and read DrStraw on this because I feel like I am that crazy person rambling. |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Loons wrote:
White has lived in gote with ... what, 6 points? But black would not play this way. Using some consistent kind of counting, Emeraldemon's last diagram was worth 2 1/2 points, and the solid connect turned out to be worth 2 points, where solidly connecting was worth 1 1/2 (just over) points. Possibly I need to go back and read DrStraw on this because I feel like I am that crazy person rambling. You are right. I answered quickly and did not think about
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Corner from game |
Thanks for looking at this. It sounds like since the seki doesn't work, protecting with the hane makes the white group live with points? I thought this was a relatively straightforward position, but it seems complicated to me now. |
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