Life In 19x19 :: Disagreeing about joseki is fun!

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Disagreeing about joseki is fun! http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12749	Page 1 of 1

Author: Celebrir [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:48 am ]

Post subject: Disagreeing about joseki is fun!

I had a real world game against a friend yesterday which featured the following opening:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 1-10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 7 . b . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . a . 0 . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

seems to be very small in my opinion. I don't know whether :w10:

was the correct answer but I wanted to make sure the usual move at 'a' is not good anymore for him. Josekipedia tells me that 'b' would have been correct but I thought that :w10:

works very well with :w2:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm11 Move 11-20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 0 9 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . a . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

might have been an overplay. A move at 'a' or :b3:

would probably be better. I was happy to play :w18:

because I calculate that he wasn't able to seal me in at the corner

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm21 Move 21-30 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 9 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , 8 . . . . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . 6 X 0 O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wasn't worried much about this because I calculated the sequence of :w24:

before.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Move 31-38 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 O 6 . . . O . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . 7 . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe I should just have played :w32:

. I was happy to get another move at the top with :w38:

. Was this timing to tennuki correct? Do you think this is equal? What would your next move as B be? Any other comments about this opening?

Author:	Uberdude [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Disagreeing about joseki is fun!
Yes 9 was soft. Your 10 is not bad but the point of the jump instead is it threatens to seal him in with e6, but he doesn't want to prevent that by pushing you along the 4th line at e6 either. If you had jumped and he did the same 11 then e6 in reply seals in his corner so it will need to live and you connect out too. Maybe your 12 was overplay, not sure, but your alternative of a in the corner is awful. Giving the ponnuki in the game was not good, especially as his corner didn't die.

Author:	Celebrir [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Disagreeing about joseki is fun!
Thanks Uberdude, that reasoning for the one-space-jump makes sense. If I don't want to give him the ponnuki, should I play this?: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm25 Variation to prevent ponnuki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . Q 5 8 6 . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . X 4 X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I thought about it, but didn't want to weaken the marked stone like that. The intresting thing is that his outer group died after I got stronger from a fight at the bottom side and the top left corner

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