Interesting questions.
"a" is the usual play for both Black and White. However, it is not an endgame play, it is a middle game play. A quick look at Waltheri's site shows that the pros play it at around move 75, give or take 20+ moves.
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| Endgame after san-san joseki http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13832 |
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| Author: | Gotraskhalana [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Endgame after san-san joseki |
I have found a lot of information how to defend the L+2 group against hane etc. And I have found advice to rather avoid playing there myself. But what if the end game is really ending and my opponent has still not moved. What is the appropriate local move for White in the following two diagrams with and without the half-stone? and What are the local endgame moves for White? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: What are the local endgame moves for White?
What's the local sequence if W(a) first ?What's the local sequence if W(b) first ? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: What are the local endgame moves for White?
What's the local sequence if W(a) first ?What's the local sequence if W(b) first ? |
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| Author: | skydyr [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Endgame after san-san joseki |
In the first diagram, without the stone, why on earth wouldn't white just extend or make a one space jump, depending on circumstances? That said, the rest of this focuses on the other two positions. In the first diagram, with the black stone the diagonal connection is pretty typical (D19), but a solid connection can be considered too. For the second, depending on the outside, you could hane at F19, but if you can't escape, this may end quite poorly (i.e. dying). Otherwise, a descent to claim territory may be fine, but be aware that it's gote. You may also want to play the vital point directly to remove sente reductions from black, as to reduce ko threats, for example. Honestly, I'd recommend you just go through and count for each play you consider sometime when you're studying. It's a good exercise anyways, and will leave you with a much better memory for the positions. In each case the true vital point is B19, but if you play it too early or unnecessarily, you lose points. Realistically, however, these situations should not generally occur, since black has sente moves against the corners. |
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| Author: | Gotraskhalana [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Endgame after san-san joseki |
skydyr wrote: In the first diagram, without the stone, why on earth wouldn't white just extend or make a one space jump, depending on circumstances? Well, "depending on circumstances" would be the question what circumstances this could depend on. skydyr wrote: Realistically, however, these situations should not generally occur, since black has sente moves against the corners. This occurred recently in several of my games. Sadly, my opponents are less than diligent in playing their sente moves, and more sadly, I then do not know how to profit properly from it. |
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| Author: | skydyr [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Endgame after san-san joseki |
Circumstances would be what's going on on the top side. Does black have other nearby stones? A wide open area? White support? |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Endgame after san-san joseki |
Interesting questions. "a" is the usual play for both Black and White. However, it is not an endgame play, it is a middle game play. A quick look at Waltheri's site shows that the pros play it at around move 75, give or take 20+ moves.
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