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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #1 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:25 am 
Tengen
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EVERYONE IS SOLVING PROBLEMS TOO EASYLY. NOW TRY THIS.
THIS IS RATED 1~4K BUT I THINK IT IS MUCH HARDER THAN THAT.
BLACK TO PLAY
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . . . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


Last edited by Magicwand on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #2 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:41 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O 6 O 7 . . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 5 . 3 . 1 4 2 |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


hm, I think I'm solving this for a 19x19 board where the right side is further out

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Go is such a beautiful game.
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Offline flOvermind
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #3 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:50 am 
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tchan001 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O 6 O 7 . . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 5 . 3 . 1 4 2 |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


hm, I think I'm solving this for a 19x19 board where the right side is further out


Even with a bigger board, I don't see why white should play :w2:. With :w2: at or one point right of :b7:, black still can't escape, and white lives in sente.

As for a solution, I haven't found anything that definitely kills white yet ;)
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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #4 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:33 am 
Gosei
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It's a "Black to play" problem. Meaning it's not necessarily Black to kill. The solution I propose is to make sure Black lives. The solution I played was assuming W tried his hardest to stop Black from living after the first move.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #5 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:11 am 
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tchan001 wrote:
It's a "Black to play" problem. Meaning it's not necessarily Black to kill. The solution I propose is to make sure Black lives. The solution I played was assuming W tried his hardest to stop Black from living after the first move.

fyi, object is to live unconditionally.
this is ko. can do better than ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 4 5 1 6 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline nagano
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #6 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:53 am 
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Good one. I think this is it:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 4 5 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 2 1 . 6 7 3 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 2 3 . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 4 1 . . . 5 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O 4 O 8 2 5 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 3 1 6 7 . 9 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O 5 O . 2 . 7 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 3 1 4 . 8 6 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War


Last edited by nagano on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #7 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:00 am 
Gosei

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I think I got it. Someone correct me, if I'm wrong.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O 4 O 8 2 5 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 3 1 6 7 . 9 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O 5 O . 2 . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 3 1 4 . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O 6 O 2 3 . 4 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 5 1 7 . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 2 3 . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 4 1 6 7 . 5 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


EDIT: Nagano seems to have the same solution.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #8 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:10 am 
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@magicwand:

For what it is worth, that's no ko :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 7 . 4 5 1 6 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #9 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:41 am 
Gosei

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topazg wrote:
@magicwand:

For what it is worth, that's no ko :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 7 . 4 5 1 6 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


That sequence makes me smile. :D Nice!
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #10 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:51 am 
Tengen
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topazg wrote:
@magicwand:

For what it is worth, that's no ko :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 7 . 4 5 1 6 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

good catch. now it is ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . 4 . . 1 . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline mithra
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #11 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:19 am 
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topazg wrote:
@magicwand:

For what it is worth, that's no ko :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 7 . 4 5 1 6 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

But W can better directly start the ko at move 4.
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #12 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:46 am 
Gosei
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This problem seems solvable, so I must be missing something. =D After this attempt, I looked back and no one has my solution, which is another bad sign~
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 4 6 7 2 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 3 5 1 . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 4 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 1 . . 5 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 3 2 4 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 1 . . 5 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #13 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:53 am 
Gosei

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Chew Terr wrote:
This problem seems solvable, so I must be missing something. =D After this attempt, I looked back and no one has my solution, which is another bad sign~
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 4 6 7 2 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 3 5 1 . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 4 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 1 . . 5 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 3 2 4 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 1 . . 5 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Here's the line I think you're missing:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . . . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


White can force ko.

This post by Marcus was liked by: Chew Terr
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #14 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:55 am 
Gosei
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Right, thanks, Marcus!

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #15 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:19 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Marcus posted the variations
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . . . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

(Assuming I'm right) I didn't think the problem was that hard, but it may have helped that at first I thought it was "Black to kill" before I realized that black only had one eye himself.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #16 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:37 pm 
Gosei
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Rather long:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . . . c X O |
$$ | . . . X O . a x y . . b . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Heuristically, black must aim at the weakness at a, which white will protect allowing black to make an eye. Kinda cheating to think of it that way, but eh. x and y seem to do that. Because of the ko at b, there's really only kinda half an eye in gote around c. So, trying x -

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 5 b a X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 2 1 . 4 . 3 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

Black has lots of external liberties, so it seems to work. Good shot in the dark. 2 @ a white seems to die. 4 at 5, 5 at b white seems to have a shortage of liberties.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 6 7 . 2 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 5 1 . . 4 3 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

But what if
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Some hijinks
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O . 3 . 5 X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 4 1 . 2 . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 4 @ 6, 5 @ a
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 2 3 . . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 6 1 5 4 . a . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 4 @ 8, 7 @9 or 4 @ 7, 5 @ 8
$$ -----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X X . O . |
$$ | . . . , X O O O X , X O . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O . X O . O 6 2 3 . X O |
$$ | . . . X O . 9 1 5 4 7 8 . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


That's a lot of diagram writing, I hope I didn't get mixed up somewhere. I miss anything ?

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: L & D Series from cyberoro (4K~1K) problem #201
Post #17 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:32 pm 
Tengen
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impressive!
everyone solving problems rather easily.
from now on i will only post hard problems so people can enjoy more.

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