I never claimed Black kills, simply that White cannot live unconditionally. Thus, seki and (desperate) kos count. The continuation I had in mind was:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$+-------------------
$$|. 1 . 5 4 . . . .
$$|. . . . . 2 3 . .
$$|O O O O O X . . .
$$|X X X X X X . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . .[/go]

Sorry, I expressed my self poorly. When I said "kills" I meant "prohibits white from living unconditionally".

So: how does this continue?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$+-------------------
$$|. 1 . 5 4 . . . .
$$|. . . 6 . 2 3 . .
$$|O O O O O X . . .
$$|X X X X X X . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . .[/go]

thanks for all the answers.

I think it is a good shape for the Corner shapes page.

I always intended that page as a collection of different corner shapes that are just not territory.

and this is a rather simple ahape ( no cutting points or so)
and also it is one of the biggest shapes that is still not territory.

How about a page uncommon corner shapes? (I took the corner shapes to mean common corner shapes, it seems.)

Reasoning:
I still remember a certain 19k on IGS, when we played it was one of my first ten games there. Encouraged by his win, he gave me a long lecture after the game about the power of the sanrensei opening and other book knowledge. I fear that people may be inclined to learn the outcomes of the staircase ten as if they were as important as understanding the tripod group. As we see from Herman being 4 dan, the staircase ten isn't so important after all. Simply adding a phrase to that end, will do the trick I guess.

At the moment CornerShapes consist of "only" 33 different corner shapes on the page.

And they are all (i think) easely accessable from the table of contents.
(the page is nothing more than a list of diagrams (one per shape) a bit of text and a link to a more specialized page)

It was always my intention to also to include positions that were bordering between "alive with territory" and "alive in seki" . (because that was a detail that I missed in other books)


(And so that readers of sensei's have sometimes the joy of turning an "alive with territory" corner into an "alive in seki" corner )

If you really like you can make a page of common corner shapes and if you like i can give you a hand (It is not that difficult just copy and paste the whole page, remove the uncommen shapes, and that is it)
I think the biggest problem is deciding what is common and not and maybe finding pages that you want to link your new page )
success

I would not list any of them

But that is mostly because in the first example White is dead and better abandoned (as far as i can see)

The second I would not list it because there is already a white stone inside Blacks area.

Also Black is alive (with territory)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +----------------
$$ | 8 4 6 . . 7. . .
$$ | 5 1 2 X X X O .
$$ | 0 3 O X O O . O
$$ | . X X O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . .
$$ | 9 X O . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . .[/go]

But if you really want I won't stop you.

But if you have really add a lot of them i would make a seperate page of "Other open formations "

It is not useful for player to know the status of the staircase ten, because they will not encounter it in games. The staircase ten is interesting as a reading exercise, as a tsumego. But it provides no benefit to learn its status anymore than learning that of the above two examples does (both of which are existing tsumego).

I guess you will find it unbelievable but I did encounter this shape in actual play.

Again, the question remains: Why include this unlikely but possible shape, and not the other thousands of shapes that are equally unlikely, but equally possible?

But it isn't common. It is not the result of known joseki or invasion. There is no point in learning by heart the status of this shape, or any of the other thousand, because it is exceedingly unlikely that you will need that knowledge.

Again, the question remains: Why include this unlikely but possible shape?

I am not convinced of those 1000 of shapes.

Please show me some (say 10) of those shapes so that:

1. Black is completely surrounding an area in the corner.
2. The black formation has no cutting points
3. The status does change if a black stone is removed (this is just to prevent superfluous stones)

4. The area that black surrounds does not contain white stones
5. The area contains more than 3 empty points (preferably more than 7)

6. The status of the group depends on who's turn it is. (for this living in seki differs from living with territory)
7. The shape is not on the CornerShapes page

Deal?

As promised, I looked at my copy of 'Go Proverbs Illustrated'. The part on five stone in a row on the third line in a corner is, alas, only one page.

It has two diagrams:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$+-------------------
$$|. 4 . . . . . . .
$$|. . . 2 1 3 . . .
$$|O O O O O X . . .
$$|X X X X X X . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . .[/go]

..and:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$+-------------------
$$|. . . . . . . . .
$$|. . . . 2 1 3 . . .
$$|. O O O O O X . . .
$$|4 X X X X X X . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . . .[/go]

And it has a few small paragraphs explaining how they live.

It does not discuss the possibility of the attacker starting with the 1-2 point.

Actually, black groups in the corner with no external liberties are almost always (quite often? More than occassionally) in danger of a seki invasion to rob points late in the end game. If it's just a single large eye shape, and the eye shape isn't a killing shape, and the number of empty intersections of the eye shape is below some surprisingly large number (I'm going to arbitrarily guess and say 13), the chance of an invasion living in seki is very real. The more blobby the eye shape the greater the chance. The lack of external liberties means all sorts of shortage of liberty tesujis can work, and since it's in the corner you run in to some interesting seki shapes that involve false eyes even.

It almost never turns up in DDK play because the players aren't strong enough to see it. In SDK play players tend to place moves inside the eye shape because they're aware of the danger.

2. The black formation has no cutting points

So you feel that the tripod groups, J groups, weak carpenters square, comb formation, hovercraft and walkie-talkie eight should not be on the corner shapes page then?