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Post #41 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:55 am 
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HermanHiddema wrote:
willemien wrote:
HermanHiddema wrote:
Again, the question remains: Why include this unlikely but possible shape, and not the other thousands of shapes that are equally unlikely, but equally possible?


2. The black formation has no cutting points



So you feel that the tripod groups, J groups, weak carpenters square, comb formation, hovercraft and walkie-talkie eight should not be on the corner shapes page then? :shock:


:-? I did remove the comb formation and walkie-talkie eight from the Common Corner Shapes page.

(as i did all closed shapes with more than 8 spaces.)

Do you really find the others uncommon as well? (they are chapters in Davies "life and death")

If you really think so you may remove them from the Common Corner Shapes page.

But please do leave the Corner Shapes page as a full index. (It is a bit a child of me, I started this page about a year ago)

You are all welcome to edit sensei's library but just removing shapes from the full index is not helpful for anybody.

Sorry but I am starting to think that i am waisting my time here a bid.
Was hoping that somebody would find a bigger closed group that also could revert to s seki.
But all i get is handwaving. So i think i am going to do something more usefull. like editing the Five stones on the third line in the corner page

And you all may wonder if it is a commmon or an uncommon corner shape.

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Post #42 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:09 am 
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willemien wrote:
HermanHiddema wrote:
willemien wrote:

2. The black formation has no cutting points



So you feel that the tripod groups, J groups, weak carpenters square, comb formation, hovercraft and walkie-talkie eight should not be on the corner shapes page then? :shock:


:-? I did remove the comb formation and walkie-talkie eight from the Common Corner Shapes page.

(as i did all closed shapes with more than 8 spaces.)

Do you really find the others uncommon as well? (they are chapters in Davies "life and death")


No, I do not. :roll:

I have been arguing, for quite some time now, that the corner shapes pages should include only common corner shapes. You gave an entirely different list of criteria, which included "no cutting points". If you think that "no cutting points" is a reasonable criterion for the corner shapes page, then apparently you feel that all of those common shapes with cutting points should be removed. If you don't think it is a reasonable criterion, then why did you give it?

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Post #43 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:33 am 
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It is that i just finished a big edit of five stones on the third line in the corner.
Hope that the page is a bit more useful now.

Okay you may have 1 cutting point per shape. :grumpy:

But: :twisted:

- the stone or connected stones at each side of the cutting point have at least 3 liberties. (so cutting doesn't put them in atari and the cutting stone can be put in atari)


Guess you now also want open formations

- Okay but the gap between the nearest black stone and the side is at most 1 space.

(I know tha gap with five stones on the third line in the corner is two stones but that is the only one. (and follows from the name of the shape)

But can i now have 20 diagrams? (is still less than 10% of all those positions

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Post #44 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:52 am 
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Wow, it's a good thing we have an official "corner shape" judge here, letting all of us uneducated plebes know the criteria for what constitutes a corner shape. And here I was, thinking that a corner shape was any shape that occurred in the corner. Boy was I wrong! Good thing I've been schooled before making a fool of myself at a sophisticated cocktail party.

:geek:

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Post #45 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:13 am 
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willemien, I think you are missing the point

if we were studying knots, for example, there are some very basic and important knots to learn

Image

but there are also knots that are nothing more than an interesting puzzle

Image

the corner page was very helpful and useful when it contained, what is considered, very basic and important corner shapes to learn. but some of the shapes you are adding now are not considered basic and important shapes to learn. they are nothing more than perhaps interesting puzzles -- that just happen to be of some "shape" in the corner.


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Post #46 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:46 pm 
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You forgot one:


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Post #47 Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:27 am 
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I did some checking but could not find any corner shapes where:

Quote:
1. Black is completely surrounding an area in the corner. (closed formation)
2. The black formation has no cutting points
4. The area that black surrounds does not contain white stones
5. The area contains 11 or more empty points.
6. White can make the shape dead or force black into a seki.


so I wrote something for this on the Corner shapes page.

There is now also a Common Corner shapes page that only contains the more commen one . (although i a wondering should the rectangual six and eight shapes be on this page.)

And as with knots you sometimes need a lasso. (that knot was not on your list)

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