Life In 19x19 :: Problem from SDK game

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W best for white $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . 3 1 2 . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B best for black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . 2 1 3 . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 O X . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I see no way for white to kill or even get seki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . 4 1 2 X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X 3 . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

/edit: uhh, this turns into a ko with a-c. black 4 at a, as loons suggested, looks good

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . b a . c X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . 3 1 2 X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X 4 . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W after the exchange $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O O X 1 . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X 2 6 3 4 X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X X X 5 . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O o o X X X O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Of course black needs one of the liberties marked o, so he needs to defend once more after this exchange.

Usual "I'm a kyu-Player so don't believe anything I say."-disclamer here.

Author:	emeraldemon [ Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:09 am ]
Post subject:	Problem from SDK game
This came up in a game yesterday: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W Moves 1 to 9 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` What is the best move for both sides? In the actual game, it went like this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W Gote Seki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . 6 . 7 9 8 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . 5 1 3 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 2 4 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` But I'm wondering if there's a better way to play.

Author:	Chew Terr [ Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Problem from SDK game
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . 9 8 6 7 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . 5 1 3 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 2 4 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` Unless I'm missing something, this seems better for black. The followup could change, but it seems like 6 is the vital point to prevent a killing shape, which would get a seki, as in the real game. But I could easily be missing something. =D

Author:	entropi [ Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Problem from SDK game
Referring to the game sequence, why not at ? White can make an eye by capturing the black stone but black has enough outside liberties to capture 5 stones back, thus creating an alive eye shape (without seki- i.e. 10 points better for black). I may easily be missing something though. Apart from that, it's indeed a nice problem. I would be surprised if it turns out that it can be killed.

Author:	emeraldemon [ Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Problem from SDK game
So it seems like the right thing would be for white to fill outside liberties, which forces black to protect?

Author:	Loons [ Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Problem from SDK game
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W Moves 1 to 9 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . 3 1 . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 2 . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` Did people consider this 3 ? 2 doesn't seem like an obvious move to me anyway. I'd start to think about something like My attempt: What about Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W Moves 1 to 9 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . 4 . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . 3 1 2 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` After which I have trouble seeing a successful continuation for white. If he captures 4, he runs into shortage of liberty problems. For fun, here`s one of those ko-everywhereish problems from one of my games: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Black to play and kill $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| X O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| X . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . X . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \|[/go] Anyone else have any fun tsumego from games ?

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Problem from SDK game http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2012	Page 1 of 1

Author:	LR24 [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Problem from SDK game
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W best for white $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . 3 1 2 . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B best for black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . 2 1 3 . . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 4 O X . . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` I see no way for white to kill or even get seki. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . 4 1 2 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 3 . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` /edit: uhh, this turns into a ko with a-c. black 4 at a, as loons suggested, looks good Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . b a . c X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X . 3 1 2 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 4 . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O . . X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W after the exchange $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . O O X 1 . . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X 2 6 3 4 X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O X X X 5 . X O . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , O o o X X X O O . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go]` Of course black needs one of the liberties marked o, so he needs to defend once more after this exchange. Usual "I'm a kyu-Player so don't believe anything I say."-disclamer here.

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/