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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: random tsumego I made
Post #1 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:36 am 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
I was messing around with some stones randomly on the board and came across this, I thought it was kind of fun so I'll share. What's the status?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Offline SoDesuNe
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #2 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:51 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O . X . . . . .
$$ | . 1 . X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Dead, I assume.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Alive, I hope ^^

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Offline Li Kao
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #3 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:52 am 
Lives in gote
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KGS: LiKao / Loki
If b moves first it seems to be dead:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ | 6 5 4 X . . . . .
$$ | . O 7 X . . . . .
$$ | 2 1 3 X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

White moving first is more complicated, but I think he can live.

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #4 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


How about this? :)

Edit: I think that this is an interesting variant. I did not want to take away from the original, but now time has passed, and I am unhiding this note. :)

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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #5 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:22 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
I actually think white to play is the more interesting one:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ko
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 6 X . . . . .
$$ | 4 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | 5 . 3 X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Dead
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 3 X . . . . .
$$ | 7 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | 5 4 6 X . . . . .
$$ | 8 O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Unless I missed something...
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #6 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:56 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Alive I believe.
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 . X . . . . .
$$ | 3 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

This post by Dusk Eagle was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, Sverre
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #7 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:25 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Oh man, I completely missed that. I need to do more tsumego :bow:
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Offline ndkrempel
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #8 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:45 pm 
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Rank: BGA 3 dan
KGS: ndkrempel
This is a nice shape, and I would like to put it or some variation of it on goproblems.com if it's not already there. Could I have your permission to do that (I would give credit of course), or maybe you'd like to do it yourself?

Thanks!
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #9 Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:30 pm 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Approach ko
$$ ------------------
$$ | 7 6 . X . . . . .
$$ | 4 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | 5 2 3 X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


I think that this is the solution. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Direct ko
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 5 . X . . . . .
$$ | 4 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | 7 2 3 X . . . . .
$$ | 6 O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


The direct ko is not as good, as a rule.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Failure
$$ ------------------
$$ | 9 5 . X . . . . .
$$ | 4 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | 8 2 3 X . . . . .
$$ | 6 O X , . . . . .
$$ | 7 O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


:w7: attempts to avoid ko. But Black fills, sacrificing four stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Failure {cont.}
$$ ------------------
$$ | O O . X . . . . .
$$ | . O O X . . . . .
$$ | 1 3 O X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | O O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | 2 O X . . . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


:b1: is nakade. After :b3: White cannot capture because of shortage of liberties.

:)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Clever attack
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 2 6 X . . . . .
$$ | 3 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | . 5 4 X . . . . .
$$ | . O X , . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | 7 O X . . . . . .
$$ | X X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


:b2: is emeraldemon's clever attack. :w3: is Dusk Eagle's refutation. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #10 Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:20 am 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
ndkrempel: I'll be happy to add both variants, as soon as I'm sure I understand them :)

Bill:
So it seems like your saying in the variant you posted, the correct solution is an approach ko, but in the original problem white can live? In particular this line:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Works for W
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 5 . X . . . . .
$$ | 4 O 1 X . . . . .
$$ | 8 2 3 X . . . . .
$$ | 6 O X , . . . . .
$$ | 7 O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | 9 O X . . . . . .
$$ | a X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


With no stone at a, white can play 9? If that's the difference, it's certainly an interesting variation :)
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: random tsumego I made
Post #11 Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:12 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
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Was liked: 3374
emeraldemon wrote:

Bill:
So it seems like your saying in the variant you posted, the correct solution is an approach ko, but in the original problem white can live? In particular this line:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Works for W
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 5 . X . . . . .
$$ | 4 O 1 X . . . . ..
$$ | 8 2 3 X . . . . .
$$ | 6 O X , . . . . .
$$ | 7 O X . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . .
$$ | 9 O X . . . . . .
$$ | a X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


With no stone at a, white can play 9? If that's the difference, it's certainly an interesting variation :)


Yes, I think that White can live outright in the original. :)

It's amazing how much go there is in a small compass, isn't it? :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: cyclops
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