Life In 19x19 :: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary

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Author:	cyclops [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Attachment: File comment: black to play, possibly ko maeda1.JPG [ 134.72 KiB \| Viewed 10199 times ]

Author:	Mnemonic [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Last time I chickened out and skipped the harder problems. I'll try to do better this time. #187 First I thought that black just plays at , but then white plays and black can only capture a dead shape. So the best I could do is get a ko where black takes first. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc No good $$------------------ $$ . . X O . 1 . \| $$ . O O X X O 2 \| $$ . . . O X O O \| $$ . . . O X X X \| $$ . . . O O O . \| $$ . . . . . . . \|[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc Ko for black $$------------------ $$ . . X O 4 3 2 \| $$ . O O X X O 1 \| $$ . . . O X O O \| $$ . . . O X X X \| $$ . . . O O O . \| $$ . . . . . . . \|[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc 8 takes the ko $$------------------ $$ . . X 7 6 5 O \| $$ . O O X X O . \| $$ . . . O X O O \| $$ . . . O X X X \| $$ . . . O O O 8 \| $$ . . . . . . . \|[/go]` #188 this one seemed simple so I probably got it wrong Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 3 O X O X . . . $$ \| . 1 2 O X . . . $$ \| . . . O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]` #189 I first thought that would work, but after you have a must win ko for black. Not good Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . O . \| $$ . . . O O O . . \| $$ . . . O X X O O \| $$ . . . O X . X . \| $$ . O . O X O . X \| $$ . . . X . 1 2 . \| $$ ----------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . O . \| $$ . . . O O O . . \| $$ . . . O X X O O \| $$ . . . O X . X . \| $$ . O . O X O . X \| $$ . . . X 3 2 1 . \| $$ ----------------[/go]` After black has to play again in the corner, but I don't think it really matters where you play exactly. I think is best endgame wise.

Author:	mw42 [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
@Mnemonic How to answer ? Your first move was correct. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 3 O X O X . . . $$ \| . 1 2 O X . . . $$ \| . 4 . O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]`

Author:	Mnemonic [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
#188 new try Damn, didn't see that. I had considred that move, but only after white conected. Back to the drawing board. This is the only that makes sense to me and now it looks like a capturing race. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| 5 X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| 7 O O X X . . . $$ \| 4 O 8 O X . . . $$ \| 2 X O O X . . . $$ \| 3 1 6 O X . X . $$ \| . . 9 . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| 5 O O X X . . . $$ \| 3 O 6 O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 2 O X . X . $$ \| . 4 7 8 O 9 . . $$ ------------------[/go]`

Author:	unkx80 [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
To Mnemonic: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 . O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]` How would you answer this ?

Author:	Sverre [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
I couldn't solve 188. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$ 187, 5@3 for ko $$-------+ $$..XO432\| $$.OOXXO1\| $$...OXOO\| $$...OXXX\| $$...OOO.\| $$.......\|[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$ 189, no ko $$......O.\| $$...OOO..\| $$...OXXOO\| $$...OX.X.\| $$.O.OXO.X\| $$...X..1.\| $$--------+[/go]`

Author:	Mnemonic [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
unkx80 wrote: To Mnemonic: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 . O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]` How would you answer this ? Arg. Not again. Of course the easiest problem is the hardest one. I don't think black can win the capturing race after the decent, but I'm having trouble coming up with any other move that works. Ok, I've now tried ever other possible combination that comes to mind and I don't see anything Let's try the capturing race again. Ok, how about this. 2 stage approach ko for black? (While editing diagrams I actually noticed, it's only a normal ko and white takes first ) Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc 10 at 4 $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O 8 O X . . . $$ \| 6 X O O X . . . $$ \| 9 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . 5 4 7 O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]` If this isn’t it I might as well just give up! I guess I really suck

Author:	mw42 [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
@Mnemonic In your diagram Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O 8 O X . . . $$ \| 6 X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . 5 4 7 O 9 . . $$ ------------------[/go]` Why not just capture and escape with ? White can make a ko after your move (see MW's post). Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| 4 X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]` Black has a better move.

Author:	Mnemonic [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Quote: Why not just capture and escape with ? Because that would be too easy Last try: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B This? $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| 4 X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O 5 . . $$ ------------------[/go]`

Author:	Magicwand [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Mnemonic wrote: Quote: Why not just capture and escape with ? Because that would be too easy Last try: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B This? $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| 4 X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O 5 . . $$ ------------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| 6 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . 4 5 . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]` this is ko?

Author:	mw42 [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Mnemonic wrote: Quote: Why not just capture and escape with ? Because that would be too easy Last try: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B This? $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| 4 X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O 5 . . $$ ------------------[/go]` I believe MW's is better than mine. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B Ko. $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 3 O X . X . $$ \| . 4 6 . O 5 . . $$ ------------------[/go]` Solution: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 . O X . X . $$ \| . . 3 . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]`

Author:	cyclops [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
hint about 188 mw's solution was my solution too. But it is wrong. If Sverre did not solve it, you better think twice.

Author:	Magicwand [ Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
solution: one i posted before is to show that it was not a solution. bottom seems like a solution. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 . O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O 3 . . $$ ------------------[/go]` edit: sorry.. i see the flaw in my reasoning. this should be correct. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 2 O . O X . . . $$ \| . X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 . O X . X . $$ \| . . 3 . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]`

Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
OK, I'll bite. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . $$ \| . X X . . . . . $$ \| X O X . . . . . $$ \| . O O X X . . . $$ \| 3 O X O X . . . $$ \| . 1 4 O X . . . $$ \| 5 2 . O X . X . $$ \| . . . . O . . . $$ ------------------[/go]`

Author:	cyclops [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
congratulations, bill!

Author:	Magicwand [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
cyclops wrote: congratulations, bill! ???? ko was the answer? WOW..i was looking for a unconditional kill.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Magicwand wrote: cyclops wrote: congratulations, bill! ???? ko was the answer? WOW..i was looking for a unconditional kill. I'll take what I can get.

Author:	mw42 [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Ahh. Of course, white can just clamp immediately. No need to capture first. I blame Mnemonic for putting that in my head!

Author:	unkx80 [ Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 LD's from Maeda elementary
Ah, I missed the clamp as well.

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