Life In 19x19 :: Positional judgement exercises

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Positional judgement exercises http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3523	Page 1 of 1

Author: Bill Spight [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:24 pm ]

Post subject: Positional judgement exercises

Honinbo Jowa recommended assessing the position after move 30, move 50, and move 100. (I take those numbers to be approximate.

)

So I thought it might be interesting to show a top pro game at around those points, so people could give it a try. I have no answers, just the final score.

Edit: I have added another at note #7.
And another at note #13.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Yasui Chitoku (W) vs. Honinbo Genjo, after move 34 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . O X , . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . X O . O X X . . . X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W After move 56 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O . O X X . X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , O . O . . O . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . X X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . O X . . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . O X , . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . X O . O X X . . . X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W After move 102, 1 White prisoner $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O . O X X O X X X . . . . . X . | $$ | . . O , O O O O O O O . . . X X X O . | $$ | . X X X O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . X . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . O , X . O X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . O . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . O . O X . . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . O X , . . X X X O O . . | $$ | . . . X O . O X X . . . X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . O X . . X . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Final board:

And the game record:

Enjoy!

Author:	Magicwand [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercise
thank you for intresting game. i feel that black led start to end. white never had any chance (or if he had any..he didnt grab it)

Author:	Kirby [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercise
Here: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Yasui Chitoku (W) vs. Honinbo Genjo, after move 34 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . \| $$ \| . . X , . O . O X , . . X X X O O . . \| $$ \| . . . X O . O X X . . . X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] If I am playing black, I think that I am losing. If I am playing white... I think that I am losing.

Author:	mw42 [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercise
Kirby wrote: Here: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Yasui Chitoku (W) vs. Honinbo Genjo, after move 34 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . \| $$ \| . . X , . O . O X , . . X X X O O . . \| $$ \| . . . X O . O X X . . . X O O . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] If I am playing black, I think that I am losing. If I am playing white... I think that I am losing. So it's even?

Author:	Dusk Eagle [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercise
I thought the first two looked even, then in the third one I preferred black. I didn't count though, or consider the (lack of) komi.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercise
BTW, I admire . I doubt if I would find it over the board. is very good, too. My assessments: The first two positions seem pretty equal to me. OC, Black has sente, so he has an advantage. The third position favors Black, IMO. Playing a peer without komi, I would feel very confident. The +9 result seems about right, given this position.

Author: Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:34 am ]

Post subject: Re: Positional judgement exercise

How about another one?

Enjoy!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Okunuki Chisaku (W) vs. Jowa, move 38, 1 Black prisoner, 1 White prisoner $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O . . X . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Move 60, 1 Black prisoner, 1 White prisoner $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O . . X . . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O O . X O O . . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . X X O . . O . X X O O . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . O , X O . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . X X O . O . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Move 110, 1 Black prisoner, 1 White prisoner $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . X O O . O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O X O X . . X O O X . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . X O , . X . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . O O . X O X X . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O X O O X . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . X O O O . X O O . . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . X X O . X X O . . O . X X O O . . | $$ | . X . , O . . . O , X O . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O O . X . X X O . O . . X . X O . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Final board:

Author:	topazg [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercise
White - Black - Black for me on this second one

Author:	Kirby [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercise
Based on feeling alone, I favor white for the first diagram, and black for the second two. Edit: I was ninja-ed.

Author:	mw42 [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercises
I thought black was ahead the whole game. Initially, I liked white in the first diagram mostly because of the top right corner, but as it was black's move I figured he'd get to play there first. For the first game, I thought all the diagrams were more or less even perhaps with a white edge in the first. After I saw there was no komi, I preferred black for the third diagram, but I may have been influenced by also knowing the result.

Author:	Dusk Eagle [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercises
Again, just a quick look, but I prefer black all the way through.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Positional judgement exercises
That Jowa magic is wonderful to behold. Position 1: I felt was pretty even. OC, Black has the advantage of sente. Position 2: Black is ahead, because of the weakness of White's bottom left group. Positon 3: I misjudged this one, because I did not fully appreciate the weakness of White's group on the bottom side. I thought the position was pretty close. However, there were so many weaknesses on both sides that I was not confident of any assessment. At the same time, the existence of those weaknesses meant that the value of sente was high, and that favored Black.

Author: Bill Spight [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:02 am ]

Post subject: Re: Positional judgement exercises

How about another Jowa special?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Jowa (W) vs. Hattori Rittetsu, move 28 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . . X . O . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . O X . , X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . X . . , O . . | $$ | . . . X O . . X . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Move 48, 1 Black prisoner, 1 White prisoner $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . . X . O X O X O . O | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X O . O O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . X . . , O . . | $$ | . . . X O . . X . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Move 102, 2 Black prisoners, 1 White prisoner $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . . X . O X O X O . O | $$ | . . O , O . . . . , . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . . X . X X . . . X X O O O O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . X . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X O . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . X X O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X O O . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . X O X . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . X , O . X . . , O . . | $$ | . . X X O . . X . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Final board:

Game record:

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/