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Author:

nyuubi [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:19 pm ]

Post subject:

this tsumego...

I just can't see it...

It's black to play. Can you enlighten me?

Attachments:

ts.sgf [184 Bytes]
Downloaded 564 times

Author:	Boidhre [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
Maybe I'm being completely dense here but: is F18 and connecting underneath after he defends the cut the start of it?

Author:	nyuubi [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
Even if that was the case, white is strong all around. Black has to get some kind of local result like ko maybe.

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B First black creates an approach problem $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . . . . 9 7 . . . . $$ \| . . X X O 4 5 . . . $$ \| . O O X O 3 6 . O . $$ \| . . X O 1 8 . . . , $$ \| . . . 2 0 . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bm11 Then he captures the stones in the corner $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . 3 . . X X . . . . $$ \| 4 2 X X O O X . . . $$ \| . O O X O . O . O . $$ \| 5 1 X O . O . . . , $$ \| . . . O O . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wm16 White can create bulky five $$ +-------------------- $$ \| 4 X 2 1 X X . . . . $$ \| O O X X O O X . . . $$ \| 3 O O X O . O . O . $$ \| X X X O . O . . . , $$ \| . . . O O . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wm20 But black can create an eye at the side. $$ +-------------------- $$ \| X X X . X X . . . . $$ \| . . X X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 . X O . O . O . $$ \| X X X O . O . . . , $$ \| . . . O O . . . O . $$ \| . 2 O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]`

Author:	Uberdude [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
The double hane tesuji to gain a liberty crops up reasonably often, here is one joseki example. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W Play against 3-3 6-4 shimari $$ -------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . 0 . . \| $$ . . . . . . 7 X 9 . \| $$ , . . . X 8 2 1 5 . \| $$ . . . . . . 3 4 6 . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ , . . . . . , . . . \|[/go]` Obviously black gets super thick this way so usually the outside will be better than the corner life ( is normally atari at 8 and then extend one point below , sacrificing the corner to squeeze on the outside and then extend), but it's nice to be able to live if you want to.

Author:	nyuubi [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
Thanks guys. I can see it now. This'll be useful to know:)

Author:	Tryss [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
HermanHiddema wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B First black creates an approach problem $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . . . . 9 7 . . . . $$ \| . . X X O 4 5 . . . $$ \| . O O X O 3 6 . O . $$ \| . . X O 1 8 . . . , $$ \| . . . 2 0 . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bm11 Then he captures the stones in the corner $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . 3 . . X X . . . . $$ \| 4 2 X X O O X . . . $$ \| . O O X O . O . O . $$ \| 5 1 X O . O . . . , $$ \| . . . O O . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wm16 White can create bulky five $$ +-------------------- $$ \| 4 X 2 1 X X . . . . $$ \| O O X X O O X . . . $$ \| 3 O O X O . O . O . $$ \| X X X O . O . . . , $$ \| . . . O O . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wm20 But black can create an eye at the side. $$ +-------------------- $$ \| X X X . X X . . . . $$ \| . . X X O O X . . . $$ \| . 1 . X O . O . O . $$ \| X X X O . O . . . , $$ \| . . . O O . . . O . $$ \| . 2 O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` What about letting black "escape" and kill it outside? Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . X X O . . . . . $$ \| . O O X O . . . O . $$ \| . 2 X O 1 . . . . , $$ \| . . . . . . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]` It seems very hard for black to live here (unless I miss an obvious line).

Author:	Uberdude [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
Tryss wrote: What about letting black "escape" and kill it outside? It seems very hard for black to live here (unless I miss an obvious line). Seems very hard to kill for white here. Either black gets out the big gap or captures the 2 stones (maybe you missed black a?). Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . X X O . . . . . $$ \| . O O X O . a . O . $$ \| . 2 X . 1 . . . . , $$ \| . . . 3 . . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]`

Author: Tryss [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:31 pm ]

Post subject: Re: this tsumego...

How black at a capture?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X X O a 6 b . . $$ | . O O X O . 5 . O . $$ | . 2 X . 1 . . . . , $$ | . . . 3 . . . . O . $$ | . . O . . 4 . . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

a) :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------- $$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . $$ | . . X X O 1 O 5 . . $$ | . O O X O 2 X 6 O . $$ | . O X . X 3 . . . , $$ | . . . X . . . . O . $$ | . . O . . O . . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

b) :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X X O . O 1 . . $$ | . O O X O 2 X . O . $$ | . O X . X . . . . , $$ | . . . X . . . . O . $$ | . . O . . O . . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Maybie I miss something, but it looks not trivial to me.

Author:	illluck [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: this tsumego...
Perhaps this? Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ +-------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . X X O . O 1 6 . $$ \| . O O X O 2 X 4 O . $$ \| . O X . X 3 5 . . , $$ \| . . . X . . . . O . $$ \| . . O . . O 7 . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]`

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