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Something Random I Just Noticed
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6004		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Thu May 17, 2012 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Something Random I Just Noticed
This is probably widely known by everyone (including extraterrestrials) but it's something I just figured out today. It's probably pretty sad considering I'm a KGS 7 Kyu. But observe:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Dia. A
$$------------------
$$|. . . . . . . .
$$|X X . . . . . .
$$|O O X . . . . .
$$|C X O . . . . .
$$|. O . . . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . .
$$|
$$|[/go]


The space marked with a circle is where we common play (at least I do) and it's what is generally perceived to be correct (to me), but it's not the best possible move. Observe:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Dia. B
$$------------------
$$|. . . . . . . .
$$|X X . . . . . .
$$|O O X . . . . .
$$|. X O . . . . .
$$|C O . . . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . .
$$|
$$|[/go]


This play results in a snapback, if white captures, which seems to be better in my opinion. Either way the result seems to be a tiny bit better by at least a point. Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious (or if this has been pointed out before) but I thought it might at least benefit someone. If I'm incorrect, feel free to correct me. :D

Edit: In both diagrams, it's :black:'s move.
Author:  The Pilgrim [ Fri May 18, 2012 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Something Random I Just Noticed
Well done ! :clap:
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Fri May 18, 2012 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Something Random I Just Noticed
The Pilgrim wrote:
Well done ! :clap:


Thankee sai!
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Fri May 18, 2012 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Something Random I Just Noticed
Yep, this is one of the small things which will make you a stronger Go player =)
Author:  illluck [ Fri May 18, 2012 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Something Random I Just Noticed
For that situation I would actually capture just to avoid the atari, though :p
Author:  nyuubi [ Fri May 18, 2012 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Something Random I Just Noticed
The opponent gains ko threat though, so usually just taking is correct. But it is indeed a good tesuji to remember. If for example there was a huge territory that move would be nice cause it would make the capture sente. In this case, I think taking is better because white doesn't really have anything and you don't really gain anything, but your opponent gets a ko threat.

Edit: Mind you, I was about 2k before I began noticing this kind of tesuji (Not snapback, but this kind of endgame trick) so knowing it at 7k is really nice. But hailthorn my friend, I remember when I was 10k you were 8k, why!? ^_^
Author:  illluck [ Fri May 18, 2012 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Something Random I Just Noticed
Normally the hane is better (the ko threat is a small price to pay. Here I don't really like the counter atari if hane, though.

Edit: Below is easier to see that hane is better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Dia. A
$$------------------
$$|. . . . . . . .
$$|X X X . . . . .
$$|O O X . . . . .
$$|C X O . . . . .
$$|. O O . . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . .
$$|
$$|[/go]
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Fri May 18, 2012 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Something Random I Just Noticed
nyuubi wrote:
The opponent gains ko threat though, so usually just taking is correct. But it is indeed a good tesuji to remember. If for example there was a huge territory that move would be nice cause it would make the capture sente. In this case, I think taking is better because white doesn't really have anything and you don't really gain anything, but your opponent gets a ko threat.

Edit: Mind you, I was about 2k before I began noticing this kind of tesuji (Not snapback, but this kind of endgame trick) so knowing it at 7k is really nice. But hailthorn my friend, I remember when I was 10k you were 8k, why!? ^_^


I've always improved at a very slow rate for some reason. I started off as a KGS 22k in 2010 and since then I've only made it to 7k. Sad. But SDK was one of my big goals. Maybe that's why I've stalled. It also doesn't help going 2-3000 against quality opponents.

The funny thing about HOW I noticed this was I was watching a game between a 9k and an 11k, and I started tinkering around. And bam. This is the result.
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