Life In 19x19 :: Breaking joseki question

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Author: NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:58 am ]

Post subject: Breaking joseki question

Regular joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

New move I tried:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q X X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
I would show my variation in my head, but i dont know how to here, with putting the move order and such

Author: Splatted [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:07 am ]

Post subject: Re: Breaking joseki question

Do you mind showing a continuation because all my humble 5k brain can see is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 P X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black takes a big corner and influence on the white while white gets something that doesn't quite qualify as a wall on the top.

Edit: Actually it looks like white might win the capturing race...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O X P X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 6 4 O O X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looks like it depends on whether the ladder works.

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
Splatted wrote: Do you mind showing a continuation because all my humble 5k brain can see is this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 4 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 P X 7 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . 8 O O X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Black takes a big corner and influence on the white while white gets something that doesn't quite qualify as a wall on the top. Edit: Actually it looks like white might win the capturing race...

Author: NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:11 am ]

Post subject: Re: Breaking joseki question

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O 5 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

doesnt seem to work exactly yet? I think there are more variations, dont have time to write them out. But i feel like this might work because in the game i played it did

EDIT: How about:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O X X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X 4 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 1 3 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	emeraldemon [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
What joseki is this supposed to be? Something like this? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 7 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 8 . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 6 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
emeraldemon wrote: What joseki is this supposed to be? Something like this? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 7 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 8 . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 6 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Yes its the continuation of that

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
Messed up: look next post

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
NoSkill wrote: Game i played went like this: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 P X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . 7 O O X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X 5 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Then: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 6 O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 5 O X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . 2 X O O X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] And i end up getting libs to kill the corner.

Author:	amnal [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
Quote: EDIT: How about: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . 2 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] But isn't this terrible for white? Black has too many liberties, he can just break out or capture white's 3 stones at the top. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . 2 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . 6 . X O O X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
amnal wrote: Quote: EDIT: How about: But isn't this terrible for white? Black has too many liberties, he can just break out or capture white's 3 stones at the top. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . 2 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . 6 . X O O X 4 . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] I think your right. But i feel like there are some kind of ways to make the original change decent. Like look at what happened in game, he made a mistake but i ended up killing. I think it could work, because it almost does xD

Author: emeraldemon [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:38 am ]

Post subject: Re: Breaking joseki question

I can't find your :b9:

anywhere, it's always the descent:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 like this? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 8 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 6 1 9 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 like this? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 X O O . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

see e.g. http://senseis.xmp.net/?34PointHighAppr ... nTrickPlay

Is there a reason black plays the tiger's mouth?

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
Its a trick play i think: http://eidogo.com/ But the "right move" for white turns out bad in my opinion. I think that this could turn out better.

Author:	amnal [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
emeraldemon wrote: see e.g. http://senseis.xmp.net/?34PointHighAppr ... nTrickPlay Is there a reason black plays the tiger's mouth? Here is a game where some professionals contrive to make the shape, albeit in a more amusing way. There's a couple of others as well, but only as shimari resistances with tenukis in. It happens more if you count it being black to play. In this line, white chooses to live in the corner whilst pushing on the outside as much as he can. Is it generally good? I don't know. But here it is anyway. Quote: Its a trick play i think: http://eidogo.com/ But the "right move" for white turns out bad in my opinion. I think that this could turn out better. I've always considered this to be one of those cases where you have to be careful to keep an eye on the whole board before claiming any particular variation to be the best. After black plays low, it seems quite plausible that white can play elsewhere in many positions. I'm not convinced that your move is better than the eidogo suggestion in general, though. Of course, what's best does depend a lot on white's opinion about his floating stones - if black is strong everywhere, they could be worthless and make your ideas more worthwhile. But if black is not strong, or white is strong, they could be very powerful.

Author:	NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
I messed up the variations for the in-game in some way i think. Point out the mistakes if you see them, i dont have time now but i will check again later. It amounts to something like white kills corner black gets 2 sides, or white kills the left and black gets corner/right

Author:

NoSkill [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:36 am ]

Post subject:

Re: Breaking joseki question

Here is the game in question: note that i was at another house with a different pc so the game was terrible for me ^^.

Attachments:

New joseki idea.sgf [1.93 KiB]
Downloaded 427 times

Author:	Shaddy [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
This won't end up well for white. The corner's definitely dead, and you should go with the known refutation of the trick instead of this.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Breaking joseki question
A few comments. Edit: You can win the battle and lose the war. See comment to .

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