Life In 19x19
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tsumego #32
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7370
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Author:  cyclops [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  tsumego #32

Day #32 December 6th
On behalf of Cho Chikun I want to apologize for leaving out some surrending stones in #31a.
#32a Advanced problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|...........
$$|...XXXXXO..
$$|..O.OXOOO..
$$|...OOX...,.
$$|..OXXXO....
$$|..OO..O....
$$|.....O.....
$$|...........[/go]

#32b Intermediate problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|..OX.X.
$$|OO..OX.
$$|XO.OOX.
$$|.XO,XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]

#32c Elementary problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-------
$$|...O..
$$|X.OOX.
$$|.OOXX.
$$|OOX,..
$$|.XX...
$$|......[/go]
Have fun!

Author:  Josh Hatch [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

#32a Advanced problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|...........
$$|.3.XXXXXO..
$$|.2O.OXOOO..
$$|.1.OOX...,.
$$|..OXXXO....
$$|..OO..O....
$$|.....O.....
$$|...........[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|...........
$$|.53XXXXXO..
$$|.4O.OXOOO..
$$|.12OOX...,.
$$|..OXXXO....
$$|..OO..O....
$$|.....O.....
$$|...........[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|...........
$$|.52XXXXXO..
$$|..O4OXOOO..
$$|.13OOX...,.
$$|..OXXXO....
$$|..OO..O....
$$|.....O.....
$$|...........[/go]

#32b Intermediate problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.1OX3X.
$$|OO2.OX.
$$|XO.OOX.
$$|.XO,XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]

#32c Elementary problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-------
$$|.1.O..
$$|X.OOX.
$$|.OOXX.
$$|OOX,..
$$|.XX...
$$|......[/go]

Author:  jts [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

So for the first one I think B wants to sacrifice an extra stone for sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|...........
$$|.35XXXXXO..
$$|.2O.OXOOO..
$$|.14OOX...,.
$$|..OXXXO....
$$|..OO..O....
$$|.....O.....
$$|...........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|...........
$$|.57XXXXXO..
$$|.2O4OXOOO..
$$|813OOX...,.
$$|.6OXXXO....
$$|..OO..O....
$$|.....O.....
$$|...........[/go]

Author:  illluck [ Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

@Josh:
To be honest I felt the intermediate one is harder than the advanced :p
The below looks like ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|21OX.X.
$$|OO..OX.
$$|XO.OOX.
$$|.XO,XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]

Author:  Marcus [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

illluck wrote:
@Josh:
To be honest I felt the intermediate one is harder than the advanced :p
The below looks like ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|21OX.X.
$$|OO..OX.
$$|XO.OOX.
$$|.XO,XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]


EDIT: premature, there's another line I missed. :P

@illluck:
I don't think that's actually ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|21OX.X.
$$|OO.5OX.
$$|XO3OOX.
$$|.XO4XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc :b3: at the circle
$$--------
$$|21OX5X.
$$|OO4.OX.
$$|XOCOOX.
$$|.XO,XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]

Author:  Marcus [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

And to refute my own line:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|21OX5X.
$$|OO.4OX.
$$|XO3OOX.
$$|.XO6XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]

Author:  shapenaji [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

Marcus:

Your B3 lets white live... white still has to take the ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|21OX4X.
$$|OO..OX.
$$|XO3OOX.
$$|.XO.XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]

Author:  Josh Hatch [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

illluck wrote:
@Josh:
To be honest I felt the intermediate one is harder than the advanced :p
The below looks like ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|21OX.X.
$$|OO..OX.
$$|XO.OOX.
$$|.XO,XX.
$$|.XO....
$$|..XX...
$$|.......[/go]

Yeah, it's a ko. I don't see anything better at this point though. If there were a black stone at d15 we could kill with a shortage of liberties but I don't see any way of killing unconditionally as it is.

Author:  cyclops [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: tsumego #32

From GoDiscussions.com
zinger wrote:
2007-12-06, 01:36 PM
Having just showed this problem to a 9-dan, I can now say with confidence that that problem is flawed and that there is indeed no way for Black to live.
I've lost a lot of trust for tasuki's files now.
I think that, in a way, the odd mistake or two makes them better. After all, the most common result in real games is that you can't kill your opponent's group. Why shouldn't some of these be mixed in with a problem set?

sol.ch wrote:
2007-12-06, 01:58 PM
Whatever floats your boat. As for myself, not having the solutions was bad enough for me for reassurance and verification. Now I have to deal with rogue problems where there's no answer? Might as well create an encyclopedia of positions taken from random games and say "Anything interesting to do?".

zinger wrote:
2007-12-06, 04:10 PM
Whatever floats your boat. As for myself, not having the solutions was bad enough for me for reassurance and verification. Now I have to deal with rogue problems where there's no answer? Might as well create an encyclopedia of positions taken from random games and say "Anything interesting to do?".
Yes, that is exactly what floats my boat. And I am quite satisfied with having no solutions presented.
Problems where there is no answer? There is always an answer. The answer may be "reduce in sente" or "tenuki" instead of "kill" or "capture", but that's still an answer. I say, practice like you play.

I, cyclops, feel bit of responsible. From now on I will check the previous solutions for errors.

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