Life In 19x19 :: tsumego #36

Quote:

Tibul

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$----------- $$|.XOO.3.5.. $$|OXXXO214.. $$|O.XOO.OXX. $$|XXXXX.O.., $$|......O.X. $$|.OO.O.O... $$|..........[/go]

The best i can read is this KO correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

drStraw

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$----------- $$| . X O O 7 5 . . . . $$| O X X X O 2 3 6 . . $$| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$| X X X X X 4 O . . , $$| . . . . . . O . X . $$| . O O . O . O . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Quote:

Tibul:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$----------- $$| . X O O 7 5 . . . . $$| O X X X O 2 3 6 . . $$| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$| X X X X X 4 O . . , $$| . . . . . . O . X . $$| . O O . O . O . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

ah i thought of that variation but for some strange reason i thought white wouldn't take the stone at 4 and would play 4 at 6 not thinking that white if cut off would be short of liberty's and would die anyway

Just noticed this what if white reply s like this, seems to me black is dead now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$----------- $$| . X O O . 4 . . . . $$| O X X X O 2 3 . . . $$| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$| X X X X X . O . . , $$| . . . . . . O . X . $$| . O O . O . O . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Quote:

Tommy

@Tibul,

combine your teaching with that of DrStraw
and you've got the solution ...

DrStraw's teaching

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$----------- $$| . X O O 7 5 . . . . $$| O X X X O 2 3 6 . . $$| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$| X X X X X 4 O . . , $$| . . . . . . O . X . $$| . O O . O . O . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

If Black gets B7 , s/he lives.
(Strong Tibul found a variant for W4)

Quote:

Tibul

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$----------- $$| . X O O 5 3 . . . . $$| O X X X O 2 1 4 . . $$| O . X O O . O X X . $$| X X X X X . O . . , $$| . . . . . . O . X . $$| . O O . O . O . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

ah now i see it i overlooked that black 5 puts whites group in atari so white cant play to the left of 5.

Quote:

unkx

:
I strongly suspect this is yet another of those problems that have no solutions.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$ -------------------- $$ | . X O O . 2 . . . . $$ | O X X X O 4 1 . . . $$ | O . X O O 3 O X X . $$ | X X X X X . O . . , $$ | . . . . . . O . X . $$ | . O O . O . O . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]SSBc $$ -------------------- $$ | . X O O . 2 . . . . $$ | O X X X O 3 1 . . . $$ | O . X O O 4 O X X . $$ | X X X X X . O . . , $$ | . . . . . . O . X . $$ | . O O . O . O . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Author:	cyclops [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:	tsumego #36
Day #36 December 10th explo posted some 330 series of problems five years ago. I am not sure I am so well disciplined. Ample response might help. At Topasz' request I open a new thread on each series. Isn't it flooding the Study Group too much? Maybe a new section: Tsumego? #36a Advanced problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO...... $$\|OXXXO..... $$\|O.XOO.OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` #36b Intermediate problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$------------ $$\|...O..O.X.. $$\|OOOXO...... $$\|...XOX.OXX. $$\|.X.XXOO.X,. $$\|.......X... $$\|....X.X.... $$\|...........[/go]` #36c Elementary problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$-------- $$\|O.OOX.. $$\|..XXXO. $$\|X..OOO. $$\|OOO,... $$\|.......[/go]`

Author:	logan [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
#36a Advanced problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO5..... $$\|OXXXO234.. $$\|O.XOO1OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO.5.... $$\|OXXXO23... $$\|O.XOO1OXX. $$\|XXXXX4O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` #36b Intermediate problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc @ $$------------ $$\|...O.3Q5X.. $$\|OOOXO612... $$\|...XOX4OXX. $$\|.X.XXOO.X,. $$\|.......X... $$\|....X.X.... $$\|...........[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$------------ $$\|...O.3O4X.. $$\|OOOXO512... $$\|...XOX.OXX. $$\|.X.XXOO.X,. $$\|.......X... $$\|....X.X.... $$\|...........[/go]` #36c Elementary problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$-------- $$\|O.OOX.. $$\|.1XXXO. $$\|X..OOO. $$\|OOO,... $$\|.......[/go]`

Author:	Prodigious [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
logan wrote: #36a Advanced problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO5..... $$\|OXXXO234.. $$\|O.XOO1OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO.5.... $$\|OXXXO23... $$\|O.XOO1OXX. $$\|XXXXX4O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` #36b Intermediate problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc @ $$------------ $$\|...O.3Q5X.. $$\|OOOXO612... $$\|...XOX4OXX. $$\|.X.XXOO.X,. $$\|.......X... $$\|....X.X.... $$\|...........[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$------------ $$\|...O.3O4X.. $$\|OOOXO512... $$\|...XOX.OXX. $$\|.X.XXOO.X,. $$\|.......X... $$\|....X.X.... $$\|...........[/go]` #36c Elementary problem Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$-------- $$\|O.OOX.. $$\|.1XXXO. $$\|X..OOO. $$\|OOO,... $$\|.......[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO.4.... $$\|OXXXO23... $$\|O.XOO1OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` How about this?

Author:	logan [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
Don't know the solution then.

Author:	Shaddy [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
I don't think the advanced problem has a solution. Now for someone to prove me wrong:

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

tsumego #36 http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7391	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Prodigious [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
Yeah, I don't think it has a solution either. White F19 just thwarts black in every interesting variation

Author:	jts [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
What about this? Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOW35.... $$\|OXXXO.1... $$\|O.XOO2OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO.3.... $$\|OXXXO21... $$\|O.XOO.OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc $$----------- $$\|.XOO2..... $$\|OXXXO.1... $$\|O.XOO3OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` nm, f19 refutes this, too

Author:	cyclops [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
If better players fail, 7 kyu is only hope Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc @a -> ko $$ +--------------------- $$ \| . X 9 a 7 1 . 5 . . $$ \| O X X X O 2 3 4 . . $$ \| O . X O O 6 O X X . $$ \| X X X X X . O . . , $$ \| . . . . . . O . X . $$ \| . O O . O . O . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc W fails $$ +--------------------- $$ \| . X . 4 3 1 . 5 . . $$ \| O X X X O . . . . . $$ \| O . X O O 2 O X X . $$ \| X X X X X . O . . , $$ \| . . . . . . O . X . $$ \| . O O . O . O . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` opp's keypoint is my keypoint! edit: refuted in next post

Author:	Prodigious [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
cyclops wrote: If better players fail, 7 kyu is only hope Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc @a -> ko $$ +--------------------- $$ \| . X 9 a 7 1 . 5 . . $$ \| O X X X O 2 3 4 . . $$ \| O . X O O 6 O X X . $$ \| X X X X X . O . . , $$ \| . . . . . . O . X . $$ \| . O O . O . O . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc W fails $$ +--------------------- $$ \| . X . 4 3 1 . 5 . . $$ \| O X X X O . . . . . $$ \| O . X O O 2 O X X . $$ \| X X X X X . O . . , $$ \| . . . . . . O . X . $$ \| . O O . O . O . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` opp's keypoint is my keypoint! Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc B fails $$ +--------------------- $$ \| . X . 4 3 1 . . . . $$ \| O X X X O . 2 . . . $$ \| O . X O O . O X X . $$ \| X X X X X . O . . , $$ \| . . . . . . O . X . $$ \| . O O . O . O . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` Unfortunately not

Author:	cyclops [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
5 yrs ago unkx reached the same verdict: Quote: Tibul Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$----------- $$\|.XOO.3.5.. $$\|OXXXO214.. $$\|O.XOO.OXX. $$\|XXXXX.O.., $$\|......O.X. $$\|.OO.O.O... $$\|..........[/go]` The best i can read is this KO correct me if I'm wrong. Quote: drStraw Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$----------- $$\| . X O O 7 5 . . . . $$\| O X X X O 2 3 6 . . $$\| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$\| X X X X X 4 O . . , $$\| . . . . . . O . X . $$\| . O O . O . O . . . $$\| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` Quote: Tibul: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$----------- $$\| . X O O 7 5 . . . . $$\| O X X X O 2 3 6 . . $$\| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$\| X X X X X 4 O . . , $$\| . . . . . . O . X . $$\| . O O . O . O . . . $$\| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` ah i thought of that variation but for some strange reason i thought white wouldn't take the stone at 4 and would play 4 at 6 not thinking that white if cut off would be short of liberty's and would die anyway Just noticed this what if white reply s like this, seems to me black is dead now. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$----------- $$\| . X O O . 4 . . . . $$\| O X X X O 2 3 . . . $$\| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$\| X X X X X . O . . , $$\| . . . . . . O . X . $$\| . O O . O . O . . . $$\| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` Quote: Tommy @Tibul, combine your teaching with that of DrStraw and you've got the solution ... DrStraw's teaching Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$----------- $$\| . X O O 7 5 . . . . $$\| O X X X O 2 3 6 . . $$\| O . X O O 1 O X X . $$\| X X X X X 4 O . . , $$\| . . . . . . O . X . $$\| . O O . O . O . . . $$\| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` If Black gets B7 , s/he lives. (Strong Tibul found a variant for W4) Quote: Tibul Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$----------- $$\| . X O O 5 3 . . . . $$\| O X X X O 2 1 4 . . $$\| O . X O O . O X X . $$\| X X X X X . O . . , $$\| . . . . . . O . X . $$\| . O O . O . O . . . $$\| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` ah now i see it i overlooked that black 5 puts whites group in atari so white cant play to the left of 5. Quote: unkx : I strongly suspect this is yet another of those problems that have no solutions. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$ -------------------- $$ \| . X O O . 2 . . . . $$ \| O X X X O 4 1 . . . $$ \| O . X O O 3 O X X . $$ \| X X X X X . O . . , $$ \| . . . . . . O . X . $$ \| . O O . O . O . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]SSBc $$ -------------------- $$ \| . X O O . 2 . . . . $$ \| O X X X O 3 1 . . . $$ \| O . X O O 4 O X X . $$ \| X X X X X . O . . , $$ \| . . . . . . O . X . $$ \| . O O . O . O . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` I should have warned you.

Author:	logan [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
Yeah, don't know how much I'll be posting in these anymore since I can't trust the problems or that the poster said he'd check them from now on before posting them. Nothing personal, I just like to use my time more wisely & I'm just a small segment of the audience anyways : ) Best of wishes, logan

Author:	illluck [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
While I agree that it would be nice to have verified solutions, I think the time spent on reading these isn't entirely wasted. I understand it can be frustrating, but hope that the fact you exercised your reading makes it slightly more bearable

Author:	cyclops [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tsumego #36
logan wrote: ... Nothing personal, ... Best of wishes, logan No problem, Logan. I accept your reservations. The problem I face is that the GoDiscussions files were not saved in very good shape. All tags are removed. All comments are in one heap such that it is not clear which post refers to what problem. Post on a new series are interwoven with posts on previous series without numbers, dates or diagrams. I checked this problem and I was triggered by "@Tibul, combine your teaching with that of DrStraw and you've got the solution ... " by Tommie 3 or 4 dan into believing there was a solution. Maybe my effort was not sufficient. It is of course your own choice to participate. Maybe you want to join in again later.

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