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Interesting high dan tsumego
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7643
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Author:  tchan001 [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Interesting high dan tsumego

Here's an interesting tsumego which has recently stumped a good friend on KGS recently. From a somewhat recent Japanese problem book for dans. Enjoy
Black to move

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . . O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O . X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  lovelove [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

:mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 7 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 5 4 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 6 3 O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  logan [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

lovelove wrote:
:mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 7 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 5 4 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 6 3 O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

What did you receive in this variation?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . 3 O 2 X 4 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  ez4u [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

logan wrote:
lovelove wrote:
:mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 7 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 5 4 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 6 3 O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

What did you receive in this variation?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . 3 O 2 X 4 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 X O O 2 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 6 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 7 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O W 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

:w4: at the marked stone

Author:  logan [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

Yep, good job : )

Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

I think this alternate move for :b3: also works.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  tchan001 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

ez4u wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 X O O 2 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 6 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 7 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O W 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

:w4: at the marked stone

Not quite ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X . X O O . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Dusk Eagle wrote:
I think this alternate move for :b3: also works.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Not quite Dusk Eagle
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 . O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  lovelove [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

ez4u's reading is right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X . 4 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 8 at 6, 9 at 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O 4 O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X 6 7 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  ez4u [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

tchan001 wrote:
ez4u wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 X O O 2 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 6 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 7 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O W 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

:w4: at the marked stone

Not quite ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X . X O O . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Yep, careless...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O a O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 4 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 1 3 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O O 5 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

If 4 at 5, "a" reverts to earlier diagram

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O O O a O X . . .
$$ | . X O X X X O X X . .
$$ | . X O X 2 1 X O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

White cannot fill at "a" instead of recapturing due to shortage of liberties.

Author:  lovelove [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

ez4u wrote:
Yep, careless...

Any problems with my solution, or just an alternative?

Author:  tchan001 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

lovelove wrote:
ez4u's reading is right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X . 4 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 8 at 6, 9 at 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O 4 O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X 6 7 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Model solution from book
is a ko :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O O O X . . .
$$ | . X O O 3 2 O X X . .
$$ | . X X X O 1 . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  Alguien [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

Beautiful problem.

I like those chains of one liberty (the children of crane's nest) but they're still too hard for me to see.

Author:  lovelove [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

tchan001 wrote:
lovelove wrote:
ez4u's reading is right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X . 4 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 8 at 6, 9 at 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O 4 O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X 6 7 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Model solution from book
is a ko :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O O O X . . .
$$ | . X O O 3 2 O X X . .
$$ | . X X X O 1 . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

I see... :roll:

Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

Ah, :w8: is the move I missed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 8 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 7 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 5 O 2 X 6 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Author:  ez4u [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

Dusk Eagle wrote:
Ah, :w8: is the move I missed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 8 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 7 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 5 O 2 X 6 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Yes!

Author:  Josh Hatch [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting high dan tsumego

tchan001 wrote:
Here's an interesting tsumego which has recently stumped a good friend on KGS recently. From a somewhat recent Japanese problem book for dans. Enjoy
Black to move

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . . O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O . X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


I thought I recognized this problem. Tien had this problem when he was an insei in Japan and posted about it on his blog. http://gooften.net/2011/12/06/sample-insei-tsumego/
There's some discussion of the problem in the comments on his post.

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