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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Go Problem!
Post #1 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:12 pm 
Honinbo

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I thought this go problem was interesting:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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be immersed

This post by Kirby was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Go Problem!
Post #2 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:03 pm 
Gosei
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Is it ko?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 6 5 , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Offline moyoaji
 Post subject: Re: Go Problem!
Post #3 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Universal go server handle: moyoaji
Alright. Let's look at this. It seems like :b1: is the vital point, but what can white do?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Vital point?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White fails - shortage of liberties
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 4 X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White fails - shortage of liberties
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 5 X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White fails - connect and die
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 7 X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White fails - still connect and die
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 8 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 9 B X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is there anything I am missing?

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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Offline DrStraw
 Post subject: Re: Go Problem!
Post #4 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:22 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2180
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
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Online playing schedule: Every tenth February 29th from 20:00-20:01 (if time permits)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black needs to be careful if :w6:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 5 . X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This works.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 8 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 5 7 X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Go Problem!
Post #5 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:06 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
DrStraw wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black needs to be careful if :w6:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 5 . X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This works.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 8 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 5 7 X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This works.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
be immersed
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Offline moyoaji
 Post subject: Re: Go Problem!
Post #6 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:13 pm 
Lives in sente
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Location: Michigan, USA
Liked others: 143
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Rank: KGS 1 kyu
Universal go server handle: moyoaji
Kirby wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c This works.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looks like ko again.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Ko, white cannot take at 'a' or it is self-atari.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 8 7 a X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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Offline DrStraw
 Post subject: Re: Go Problem!
Post #7 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:34 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2180
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
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Was liked: 662
Rank: AGA 5d
GD Posts: 4312
Online playing schedule: Every tenth February 29th from 20:00-20:01 (if time permits)
It seems that group think has arrived at the 1p solution - or have we?. Where does the problem come from?

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Go Problem!
Post #8 Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:27 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
DrStraw wrote:
It seems that group think has arrived at the 1p solution - or have we?. Where does the problem come from?


Yes, the answer is ko. The first reply works, and like moyoaji pointed out, ko can be reached from your starting move, too.

The problem came from a lecture I watched, and I liked the shape, so I posted it here.

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