Slate & Shell has just announced the publication of Alex's first book - New Moves - http://www.slateandshell.com/SSAD001.ht ... mv_pc=1264

Congratulations, Alex!

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Had a quick look at some of the sample pages - seems quite a nice book, I might even buy it.

Once again though, shame about the cover art.

Thank you!
I suggested S&S to use our own designer for cover, but without success. So, right now the cover design is rather poor. But, I guess, it's common for S&S books.
Most important thing is inside!
I can sign the book for anyone buying it in Tampere from Peter Zanveld.

By the way, our next plan is translating and publishing it in Korean. First time in history of Go probably

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Not to be rude about it or anything, but it seems like it's a bit wastefully designed. Huge font and huge diagrams taking up a lot of space Maybe this was intentional, it just seems a bit odd to me.

Congratulations on the new book, Alex!

Would you compare your book to Lee Changho's Novel Plays and Shapes? Robert Jasiek noted in his review of that book (not yours) that "it is not systematic but it might tempt you to think more systematic in future study yourself." Is this the idea? Also, what kind of player is the intended audience?

Thanks for contributing your skills to Go literature!

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I just received the last week a copy of the book.
Very good and both (An & Alex) make a good job explaining why a line works and why don't.

The book has plenty of diagram and more of a tricks book I see it as a book to get new ideas, and that show how to think when one is faced with a new idea.

The book has a lot of little clues in the comments that are the kind of things to keep in one's head during the analysis.

In my opinion is a book for SDK.
A good complement may be to take a read on the alternative clasic josekis to see the original idea and compare. Also, of course, the study of the overall fuseki is a must.

Congrats Alex.

Thx!

My ideas are getting more and more popular



On photo: Saijo,9p explaining joseki, created by myself, on EGC-2010

I was not present on the lecture, so I am not sure that Saijo-sensei explained it correctly

But you can read about this hamete in my new book

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Eh? GoGoD has 9 examples, going back to 1968 twelve years before you were born. Our first example by you was when you were still an amateur in 1999. Since it has appeared in pro play a few times recently, I'm also not sure it should be classed still as a hamete.

Of course, the meat is more important than the dressing, so good luck with the book.

Dear John,
I use BIGo database myself and I can find 25 pro examples
of this move. All 25 games are my own games
Can you be so kind to email me (backpast@gmail.com)
or upload pro examples to this forum. I am very curious.

Someone is using my joseki without permission!!!

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I'm puzzled! I don't know whether John is right or wrong, but I wouldn't expect a professional to call a sequence both joseki and hamete

On the other hand, supposing that the sequence is created by you a few weeks ago, why do you call it joseki? Joseki is a GENERALLY agreed-upon sequence of play. Did a lot of OTHER pros already see your game, check your sequence and agree that it's fair for both B and W?

Adrian

I don't think it's fair to the people who pay for GoGoD to provide a free service to others. However, the list generated from an 8x8 empty grid is as follows.

1968-04-00b: Miyako Shiro - Matsuoka Teruo (W), 60a-
1979-12-00b: Someya Kazuo - Kashiwada Kazutoshi (W), 5a-
1999-11-22e: Yi Hosuk - Alexandre Dinerchtein (B), 11a
2003-11-06l: Wang Xi - Wang Yimin (W), 13a
2005-06-06c: Hatanaka Hoshinobu - Xie Yimin (W), 54a-
2007-10-31c: Cao Youyin - Rui Naiwei (B), 25a
2009-12-12e: Li Kang - Meng Tailing (B), 39a
2009-12-12v: Liu Xing - Kong Jie (W), 14a-
2010-02-17a: Yi Yeong-ku - Pak Seung-hyeon (W), 11a

You may wish to exclude some because of the proximity of other stones, but the very first example has an empty 10x10 quadrant. The players there were two Japanese 5-dan amateurs playing in a top-rank tournament (Amateur Best Ten; they'd probably be 7-dan today). We tend to ignore amateur games but do include some if they have e.g. historical interest. The first occurrence of a joseki would be one such reason.

The second game was a three-stone game and could reasonably be called a hamete. The result clearly favours the hamete player to my untutored eye.

All the professional examples have some stones not too far away outside the 8x8 grid. I am not expert enough to tell whether they matter enough to change the basic nature of the corner play. If they do, then no doubt you can claim to be the first pro to play this hamete in published games. But I do think you owe royalties to Mr Miyako

What's with the dependence on others to validate yourself?

I believe I read somewhere about some strong pro who said something along the lines "if I play it, it's joseki".

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Carl, maybe you misunderstood my point. It's NOT about others validating someone's play. You (or Alex or anyone else) may play whatever you want and you don't need anyone's permission, validation, etc. However, a certain sequence is not joseki just because you want it or because Alex want it or because one person wants it. Just check what joseki means. I already said it and EMPHASIZED it in my previous post: a GENERALLY agreed-upon sequence of play fair for both B & W. You understand what "generally agreed" means, don't you?

Adrian

P.S. I stopped playing in 1999 and now I try to come back. I hope the things didn't change so much during this period. Joseki is hamete, maybe black is white, a young 3p disrespectfully doesn't know if Saijo sensei - 9p - explained correctly his "joseki" and so on

I understood, I just gleefully ignored
I also believe Alex comment about Saijo sensei was tounge in cheek. Humour doesn't come across very good on a forum, which makes it even more humorous.

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The definition of joseki is something that seems to bug a lot of players.

Starting with the Japanese term, the first thing to bear in mind is that the meaning is not "opening" in any shape or form. Nor is there necessarily anything "equal" inherent in the word.

The base meaning is "fixed stones", referring to a regularly played pattern of moves. To be obvious as a pattern, a reasonably long sequence is required, of course. In go, this is most likely to occur with the opening moves in the corner. The fuseki (spread-out stones) diverges too quickly for many patterns to be considered regular. On the other hand, whilst the middle game is obviously a devil's kitchen, even there there are some patterns come up often enough to be regarded as josekis (e.g. probes against corner enclosures, or certain patterns on the side).

With corner or side josekis, the reason the moves become regularly played is most often (but not necessarily) that they give a satisfactory result. This is usually expressed in English as "equal" result, but that is rather misleading. The Japanese (gokaku) has a fuzzier sense of "well matched" or "satisfactory for both sides". That fits reality better, as in general the player occupying the corner or side first should expect some advantage from that. If the other side does as well as can be expected in those circumstances, he can call it gokaku without it being really equal. To use an image, one way of writing gokaku is "cow's horns" which are in general look well balanced to us but we would never say they are equal.

There is also no rule that says a joseki has to start at the first move in an area. So long as a pattern of moves from a given position is played these are "fixed stones" and can be considered a joseki.

Now, if you have a played hamete (a trick move), that is your given position. The moves from there are liable to lead to a well recognised result - either you fall into the trap or you learn to avoid it. The moves leading to the well recognised result are going to be fixed, or regularly played. In other words, part of the hamete line can be considered joseki.

Of course, language is a living thing and the meaning of words can get bent out of shape, or people can have their own take on words despite what dictionaries say. I well remember one of my first lessons at university where we all had to write down what colour was represented by "livid". About half a dozen colours were proposed. White was the most popular, and everyone seemed to think of the word first in its meaning of "angry". Some people then chose white from "white with anger". A few chose red from red-faced anger, or puce or purple from even more anger. As always there were the clever dicks who tried to show they had spotted it was a trick question so gave a tricky answer, such as yellow. But no-one came up with the dictionary answer of bruise coloured.

We must expect joseki to have a similar rainbow effect without getting too livid about it.

Still, I must admit that I always have a silent hiccup whenever I see the phrase (in Japanese as well as English) "new joseki" when a move is played for apparently the first time. I know perfectly well that I am to understand that as meaning a pattern that was praised enough by other pros to become likely to be repeated and so regularly played, but that doesn't stop me giving a little sigh.

There is a huge difference between "I am not sure that Saijo-sensei explained it correctly" and "I am not sure that Saijo-sensei explained it correctly ". Just one smiley (that one or a similar one) but a huge difference... Sorry but I commented what was posted there, not what was in Alex's mind. I'm not that good like you are

Conclusion falling into the trap is satisfactory for both sides

Nice! OK, it seems that the things changed a lot after all ...

Adrian

P.S. Good ... Everything was clarified except for one thing mentioned in the P.S. from my second post. Who is gonna explain me that black is white? I'm waiting ...

I don't think Alex is as touchy about the word "Joseki" as some of you. Whether it's a Joseki or a Hamete, I belive he said "Joseki" casually. He probably meant "corner variation" or something... I don't think we need to be so strict about it. Personally, I could argue my defense on his bahalf a lot better if the image would display for me, so I could know which sequence we're talking about ;p Especially since I read New Moves (and liked it, very useful). You know Shusaku no Kosumi was not invented by Shusaku, it was merely a technique which he used often, and sort of standardized, but it was used far before he ever used it once. This sequence can be Alex's because perhaps he's the only one who has used it a lot. Even I (weak amateur player) have at least one or two corner inventions that I consider almost like my own. Not only that, you all know Micro Chinese Opening, right? How about Micro Chinese without the approach move first, straight to the Micro Chinese side placement? I invented that! or so I thought. It seems many people invented it, or so they thought...
Here's something I believe to have invented, and there's a good chance that no one has done this! Or so I think! :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a 4 b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O . 1 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If the conditions around are really favourable for black, and Black getting a Ponnuki by playing a forcing move Atari above two (forcing White to solidify connection) would be overconcentrated for black, or whatever justification you can think of for white exists, then next even if black takes a stone with A or B, White 2 will end protecting a cutting point of white after. For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . O 2 X 5 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 4 6 . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At one point I even thought I invented this, a long time ago:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c This is a label for the diagram.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . 5 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . 1 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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One example, which can prove that my book can be very useful even on 9p level.

Kanda Ei, 9p got tricked (and almost lost his game in 30 moves) in trickmove, which was explained in the book in great details:
http://www.go4go.net/v2/modules/collection/sgfview.php?id=24299

He lost to 11 years old girl! Just because it was a very powerful trickmove!

Now we will read something from John, who can mention 10+ books example, where it was explained earlier

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I'm not certain I understand the English here, but if you mean do we have examples in GoGoD of the opening in the upper right, yes, a couple. The earliest is by Kim Myeong-wan against Song T'ae-kon in 2003, though this features only the waist cut and not the nose attachment. The next features your good self against Emil Nijhuis in 2004, and also has the nose attachment, but it is played by Emil, not you (though you won).

Somehow I don't think Rina read your book to discover this play, though