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| Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12426 |
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| Author: | sparky314 [ Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
I'm a big fan of tsumego/tesuji books. I think they're a fun activity outside of playing Go, and hey, I've heard they make you stronger at playing, so its a win-win. So I've been collecting a library of tsumego/tesuji, hunting down what some deem as 'required.' I've read that Maeda's tsumego trilogy is consider required reading by Pros (as is Gokyo Shumyo), but I couldn't find its source, as I'd be interested in a list of what is required/recommended, outside of 'see a tsumego book, pick it up.' I'd like to avoid the whole argument of whether or not to do tsumego to get better, or if its necessary, etc. For those who wish to do tsumego/tesuji, what would be your required tsumego/tesuji reading list? I'd like to target all levels. From my experience, these would be required:
From what I've learned from others (in no particular order):
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
Cho Chikun's or Cho U's (depending on version) Dictionary of Life and Death from Nihon Kiin is also very good. |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
No particular problem-only book is required because every tsumego / tesuji book teaches something that is a subset of all other such books, and no particular problem is essential. There are, however, outstanding books by excelling at particular criteria: the most difficult classic problem collection (Igo Hatsuyoron), the most difficult modern problem collection (which?), the thickest(?) problem collection (Nihon Kiin Tesuji Dictionary), the greatest database of problems (which?), the most generally applicable theory (Tactical Reading). If you do not look for outstanding books but readerships of particular playing strengths, you might enlist further books. |
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| Author: | CnP [ Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
I like Kiseido's latest Tesuji book - "A Survey of the Basic Tesuji" - I've worked through it a couple of times. "501 Tesuji" is good too. I picked up the Maeda trilogy from Amazon.co.jp (and paid a fair amount on the postage), though it might not be available at the moment. I wouldn't say it's essential to get hold of it, it seems to me that it's more the case that it's just a good collection of good quality problems. I also got these: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TheBookToIncrea ... rengthAtGo which are also good quality problems. |
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| Author: | gowan [ Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
A candidate for most difficult contemporary tsumego book might be Cho U's Tsumego, published by MYCOM in 2006. To get the full difficulty level you should avoid Cho's simplifications which water down the problems to reasonable amateur dan player level. |
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| Author: | zac [ Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
I really like "200 Tesuji Problems", and the corresponding endgame one, and wish there were more like it in English. |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
gowan wrote: A candidate for most difficult contemporary tsumego book might be Cho U's Tsumego, published by MYCOM in 2006. To get the full difficulty level you should avoid Cho's simplifications which water down the problems to reasonable amateur dan player level. It is worth noting that in the customer reviews, a couple of DDKs rated the book highly. I expect that they found the simplifications beneficial. 
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| Author: | WinDigo [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
Right now I am going through problems (a.k.a text lectures) from the wbaduk.com site. They are quite amazing because: a) they are grouped by difficulty level ("16k-25k", "13k-15k") and topic (e.g. "Life and Death", "Endgame", "Opening" etc.) and b) while going through them from the beginning to the end there are some repetitions of shapes which help to learn them. I think it's nothing bad in posting here a link to this forum's topic about pdf-files I've made from that lectures: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11963 . They are totally free to use. The answers are only on the wbaduk.com site unfortunately. |
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| Author: | Cassandra [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
Bill Spight wrote: It is worth noting that in the customer reviews, a couple of DDKs rated the book highly. I expect that they found the simplifications beneficial. I think that these "simplifications" are a very good idea, especially from the pedagogical point of view. They create some kind of sub-problem(s), and this could be done with other tsume-go as well. Remenber that there are many tsume-go that contain a variation of an already known position / shape. There are several problems, especially "classical" ones, with different problem set-ups known. The "easier" version of these already contains e.g. moves 1, and 2, of the solution of the "more difficult" one. On the other hand, there are a lot of problems, where e.g. moves 1, and 2, of the solution serve as a kind of "appetizer" only, just because these are so "easy" to find. But the real problem of the problem comes later. A generalization of this concept could result in sub-problems of the following kinds: -- Move 1 has been placed mistakenly. Find the refutation for the defender. -- Move 2 was a somewhat unusual reply. Find the refutation for the attacker. Probably the reader would learn more this way, instead of following explanations about (mistaken) sub-variations only. |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
My experience is that most tsumego books aimed at kyu players are essentially various combinations of the same problems. It seems to me then that it does not really matter which books you read. Choose whatever one is in a form you enjoy. One man's favorite will not necessarily be another man's favorite. As you get higher up the scale I don't think this is true. |
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| Author: | sparky314 [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
@CnP - I just picked up "The Book to Increase Your Fighting Strength At Go" - Haven't had a chance to look at it yet though. Hm, I'll add Cho U to my list to check into, thanks for the advice! @DrStraw - Then for dan level players, which ones would you recommend? |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
sparky314 wrote: @CnP - I just picked up "The Book to Increase Your Fighting Strength At Go" - Haven't had a chance to look at it yet though. Hm, I'll add Cho U to my list to check into, thanks for the advice! @DrStraw - Then for dan level players, which ones would you recommend? I cannot really make any recommendations as I quit solving tsumego over 20 years ago. I occasionally do some on SL from the old classic collections (and they are worth it) but no longer from a book. |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
Off the beaten track as least from the point of view of most westerners is a set of classical tsumego problems from the 20 volume set called 適情録 (Shiqing-lu) by 林応竜 (Lin Yinlong), 1525. You can read some comments about this from the notes section of http://senseis.xmp.net/?ClassicalGoProblemBooks While the rest of the material other than the problems may not be too useful for a modern understanding of go, I find the problems in this set as exquisite as those in better known classics such as Xuanxuan Qijing, Guanzi Pu and Gokyo Shumyo. There is a limited edition reprint of this set from 1980 in Japan for the 20 volumes along with 2 volumes of Explanations by Go Seigen. If anyone is interested in this set of problems, I suggest looking purely for just the 2 volumes of Explanations by Go Seigen. Look for 適情録解説 上下巻揃 which occasionally pops up on Yahoo JP auction. Not cheap compared to other classical go problems but should still be much cheaper than the original price of the original offering at publication. Why would these problems be interesting? Well I would think that Go Seigen wouldn't bother explaining, revising, and correcting these problems and their answers if he didn't find them useful and interesting. Even if you don't read Japanese (as I don't myself) I can still appreciate the beauty of many of these problems and their explanations after the Go Seigen treatment. And yes I do own a set of these books myself. |
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| Author: | gowan [ Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
Yang Yilun's Ingenious Life and Death Puzzles volume 2 published by Yutopian, is another collection of difficult problems. Matthew Macfadyan, a British player EGF 6-dan, worked through them and, for the last 15 "advanced" problems, he spent four hours on them and still got ten of them wrong. |
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| Author: | jdl [ Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
sparky314 wrote:
I love these books. I still haven't cracked books 4-6 in either series, because by the time I get deep into books 2 and 3 I hit my limit of ability. I own a ton of go books; more than I could ever possibly need or absorb. I find myself going back to the Lee Changho books more than just about any others in my collection. |
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| Author: | sparky314 [ Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
I have the same problem - too many books, which really isn't a problem...not having enought time to get through them is the problem, but I'm definitely set for the next couple of years, with regards to tsumego/tesuji. I'm trying to hold off on reading the Changho series until I'm closer to 1k, especially since I already have plenty of books until then. And I just added Cho U's Tsumego (way above my level, but picked up based on recommendations here) and Segoe's Tesuji Dictionary (based on recommendations elsewhere) to my collection. Plenty of books all the way up the ladder. 
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| Author: | Darsey [ Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
Greetings. I hope that you don't think that I am troll, but I belive that "What's your rating?" of Kiseido (The Ishi Press) is a interesting reading. It has tsumegos of fuseki and yose. If you buy it like DVD in Kiseido Digital, you get "All About Thickness". I have Gokyo Shumyo and it is a good collection of tsumegos. Get strong at Tesuji and 1001 Life and Death Problems, I can't finish. I find they tedious and they wait me with bookmark to continue. |
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| Author: | Gohst [ Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
RobertJasiek wrote: ... the most generally applicable theory (Tactical Reading). Robert, is Tactical Reading a book, or a technique (i.e. I can't find a book by that name). |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Required Tsumego/Tesuji Books |
Gohst wrote: Robert, is Tactical Reading a book, or a technique With captital letters, it is this book: http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/TacticalReading.html http://senseis.xmp.net/?TacticalReading With lower case letters, it is the tactical kind of reading and one of the, IMO, three major kinds of reading (tactical, dynamic, strategic reading). It is not a technique. Tactical reading is a part of go theory consisting of concepts, methods and techniques, applying principles and requiring, of course, its practical performance. |
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