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what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
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Author:  Nagilum [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
Hi, on KGS i am around 4-5 kyu. I have read very different recommendations for Shukos dictionary. From mid-kyu until dan-level. So, i am not sure, if i am ready to think about buying volume 1 & 2. In the example pages available on the Slate & Shell site it seems not too hard to follow. Perhaps the samples are not representive for the rest of the book?

It seems that the book also contains a discussion of some fundamental moves. Is this right? Is this really a complete reference for the fundamentals like tobi tsuke, kosumi and diagonal jump etc. ? The title dictionary suggests some sort of completeness and structure. Does this dictionary the job or is "a uncomplete collection of ideas organized by topics" a better descrription? From a DICTIONARY i would expect that i can found (at least almost ) every basic move in the book, when i can specify a specific purpose. Of course i cant expect a recipe for every situation. But it would be nice to have a complete reference work for basic moves and techniques.

The most useful books that i have used so far were problems book. So i would also like to know how helpful on my level Shuko could be in comparison to problem books like "501 Tesuji problems"

Thanks for your replies.
Author:  kirkmc [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
I'm currently 4K KGS. I read through it last summer. While much of it was over my head, I think I got a lot out of it, simply by seeing the kinds of moves I don't see. I did solve some of the problems myself, but I'd say no more than about 20% of them.

It's not really a "dictionary", but rather sections that deal with specific types of tesuji: sometimes they're grouped by "effect" and others by type of move, but it's not really a taxonomy of tesuji.

I'd suggest that it's probably one of the most important sets in English, though, along with a good joseki dictionary (currently that means Ishida, but I've heard there's a newer one coming out soon), and with Yutopian's Dictionary of Basic Fuseki.
Author:  LocoRon [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
I got the first volume a couple years ago. It's certainly a tough read; not just because it's such high level stuff, it's just kind of dry (lot's of fact, little "flavor"). I still haven't finished it actually. I think I really should give it another go.
Author:  Ember [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
Nagilum wrote:
Hi, on KGS i am around 4-5 kyu. I have read very different recommendations for Shukos dictionary. From mid-kyu until dan-level. So, i am not sure, if i am ready to think about buying volume 1 & 2. In the example pages available on the Slate & Shell site it seems not too hard to follow. Perhaps the samples are not representive for the rest of the book?

It seems that the book also contains a discussion of some fundamental moves. Is this right? Is this really a complete reference for the fundamentals like tobi tsuke, kosumi and diagonal jump etc. ? The title dictionary suggests some sort of completeness and structure. Does this dictionary the job or is "a uncomplete collection of ideas organized by topics" a better descrription? From a DICTIONARY i would expect that i can found (at least almost ) every basic move in the book, when i can specify a specific purpose. Of course i cant expect a recipe for every situation. But it would be nice to have a complete reference work for basic moves and techniques.

The most useful books that i have used so far were problems book. So i would also like to know how helpful on my level Shuko could be in comparison to problem books like "501 Tesuji problems"

Thanks for your replies.


Hi Nagilum,

as I'm about the same strength as you (EGF 6k and KGS 4-5k) maybe my two cents do interest you. :)

First I have to say that I love Shuko's Tesuji Dictionaries. I don't have all of them yet, only the first two volumes, but they are worth every cent. I especially like the systematic approach: The tesuji are seperated into groups, depending on their meaning, on what goal they can be put to use (sealing in, pressing down, spoiling shape, just to mention some groups taken from volume 1). First, you get an introduction where a specific position is discussed in detail. Then you get a few problems related to the problem presenting a few tesuji who belong in one group. Finally, there are a few short game examples to drive the point home. ;)

I didn't find it a bit difficult to treat these books partly as a textbook and partly as an exercise book, a very good mixture IMHO. Of course, I couldn't solve all of the problems, but enough to keep me motivated - or fascinated. :) (I'm not so much of a good "reader", but intuition is always of help with tesuji, I think) It was very interesting and motivating to work through the first book, the second I still have to read. [I'm completely aware that all this is a very personal experience, but as you said you like problem books I guess you will feel the same]

Concerning this "complete reference" I wouldn't describe the books like that.. Of course, moves like the double-hane e.g. are mentioned, but not discussed in detail. (I also do not believe in "complete references" when it comes to Go :D ) I also assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that the books don't cover all tesuji, that would indeed be astonishing. But just to be able to put half of them of one book alone in good use would give you quite a boost in strenght I think.

I cannot compare the books with 501 Tesuji problems as I never took a closer look at that one. But I guess if you want a little more instruction and idea-giving than with this pure-problem book (apart for a very few (very basic!) introductory pages at the beginning), then I think you will really enjoy Fujisawa-senseis Tesuji Dictionaries.

Hope this helped!
Author:  karaklis [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
Nagilum wrote:
The title dictionary suggests some sort of completeness and structure. Does this dictionary the job or is "a uncomplete collection of ideas organized by topics" a better descrription? From a DICTIONARY i would expect that i can found (at least almost ) every basic move in the book, when i can specify a specific purpose.

I am not sure whether the term "dictionary" implies some sort of completeness. If you have a look at language dictionaries, you will find all sorts from small pocket dictionaries to very large multi-volumed encyclopedia-like dictionaries. The small ones only have the most important words, some important words are still missing though. The large ones have considerably more words, but you will still find words that are missing. That's what you can expect from a go dictionary as well. The Shuko dictionary has about 700 tesuji, but even though I have only skimmed through the four volumes (i.e. looked at some random problems in detail), it is obviously a great resource. However it seemed to be a little over my head (I was 9k at that time), and I will pick it up again once I am around 4k.
Author:  kirkmc [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
For me, "dictionary" implies a taxonomy, such as the Ishida joseki dictionary. The Shuko tesuji dictionary does not present the information like that. It's more a "collection" than an exhaustive set.
Author:  topazg [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
I think the dictionaries are excellent, although can be hard reading, and not very deeply explained. The first two volumes particularly I think are invaluable, but they are all good :)
Author:  topazg [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
Helel wrote:
kirkmc wrote:
For me, "dictionary" implies a taxonomy, such as the Ishida joseki dictionary. The Shuko tesuji dictionary does not present the information like that. It's more a "collection" than an exhaustive set.


I will not argue about the exact value of the word, but I do think these books invent a kind of taxonomy of tesuji purposes.


I would agree - and also, Ishida is hardly an exhaustive set either :)
Author:  Nagilum [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
Thank you all for your replies. I think i will wait until the next go tournament. Than i have the time to take a closer look. :)

Ok, a dictionary is not complete by definition. But i expect to find the most fundamental things. Otherwise i would call it a collection of examples. Of course, that doesnt sound very good. ;-)

Working with the Davies tesuji book was simple pattern learnig und practicing reading. Im not sure if i would call it "ideas" what i have learned. But i would be very happy if could learn new "ideas" because i think that ideas are a more general concept that i can adapt to special circumstances.

Perhaps this thinking about ideas in context with tesujis is too much and it simply comes down to practicing reading and seeing the opportunities in the games.
Author:  ethanb [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
Nagilum wrote:
Thank you all for your replies. I think i will wait until the next go tournament. Than i have the time to take a closer look. :)

Ok, a dictionary is not complete by definition. But i expect to find the most fundamental things. Otherwise i would call it a collection of examples. Of course, that doesnt sound very good. ;-)

Working with the Davies tesuji book was simple pattern learnig und practicing reading. Im not sure if i would call it "ideas" what i have learned. But i would be very happy if could learn new "ideas" because i think that ideas are a more general concept that i can adapt to special circumstances.

Perhaps this thinking about ideas in context with tesujis is too much and it simply comes down to practicing reading and seeing the opportunities in the games.


Tesuji are the flip side of the coin from reading.

Reading is pure left-brain logic - life and death problems practice that. Tesuji (and to a lesser extent opening problems) are pure right-brain art/intuition.

Unless you are playing a game in which you will be allowed to think for longer than the expected life of the universe, you will not be able to brute force read every position. Tesuji are the insights into the inner workings of the universe. They are intuitive shortcuts - use of or lack of tesuji are what make the difference between an artful, harmonious position and a dull clump of stones. If you've seen a move that shines like a star and balances the six directions, you've found a tesuji.

Less poetically: Tesuji are the reason humans are still better at Go than computers - intuition guides us to good starting points for our reading, where computers can only apply logic (heuristics) and brute force. So thinking about ideas in context with tesuji can't possibly be wrong - tesuji ARE ideas. You can't find them (easily) just by "practicing reading" - you have to understand shape.
Author:  kokomi [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the appropriate level for the shuko dictionary?
As a kgs 5kyu, I find it very difficult for me to understand. The explaination is too brief.
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