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Japanese go book from 1725
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1676		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  daal [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Japanese go book from 1725
I just came across this on ebay, and I though some of you book collectors might be interested:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... K:MEWAX:IT
Author:  TMark [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
It is the Shinsen Gokyou Taizen by Akiyama Senboku, 53 joseki diagrams and 90 fuseki diagrams. There is also a 1725 (Kyoho 10) edition published by Kimura Rihee. The book was confiscated after a copyright complaint by Honinbo Dochi. It would appear that it is the 1725 edition being offered for sale.

Best wishes.
Author:  DrStraw [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
Curious that it is on the Germany Ebay site but the location is given at Portland, OR.
Author:  daal [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
DrStraw wrote:
Curious that it is on the Germany Ebay site but the location is given at Portland, OR.


Oh. That's just because I did the search for "baduk" on the German ebay site, and that's where I saw it, and so that's the link I gave. I assume it's on the American site as well, but if it's not, you can bid on it anyway.
Author:  tchan001 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
No thanks. I already have the 1720 edition of the book and in better condition than the one shown on ebay.
http://tchan001.wordpress.com/2010/09/1 ... ou-taizen/
Author:  kirkmc [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
TMark wrote:
It is the Shinsen Gokyou Taizen by Akiyama Senboku, 53 joseki diagrams and 90 fuseki diagrams. There is also a 1725 (Kyoho 10) edition published by Kimura Rihee. The book was confiscated after a copyright complaint by Honinbo Dochi. It would appear that it is the 1725 edition being offered for sale.

Best wishes.


I'm curious as to your use of the term "copyright" above. Did Japan have copyright laws at the time, or are you simply using a more modern word to describe something slightly different?
Author:  TMark [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
A bit more of the story:

1725 saw what was probably the first go copyright case. By applying to the Shogunate, Dochi forced Akiyama Senboku (also known as Ogura Doki) to cease publication of his book Hiden Shusho, Shinsen Gokyo Taizen - Secretly Transmitted Annotations, Newly Compiled Comprehensive Go Manual. The title was a bit of a giveaway.

I doubt that there were specific laws, but each of the Go schools jealously guarded their secrets and research (especially into variants of the taisha) and it may well be considered that Honinbo Dochi was using his status to guard against dissemination of Honinbo house material.

Best wishes.
Author:  kirkmc [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
TMark wrote:
A bit more of the story:

1725 saw what was probably the first go copyright case. By applying to the Shogunate, Dochi forced Akiyama Senboku (also known as Ogura Doki) to cease publication of his book Hiden Shusho, Shinsen Gokyo Taizen - Secretly Transmitted Annotations, Newly Compiled Comprehensive Go Manual. The title was a bit of a giveaway.

I doubt that there were specific laws, but each of the Go schools jealously guarded their secrets and research (especially into variants of the taisha) and it may well be considered that Honinbo Dochi was using his status to guard against dissemination of Honinbo house material.

Best wishes.


So would you say it was more like a guild protecting its knowledge, rather than an actual copyright case? From what I can find, copyright didn't exist in Asian countries until the 19th century, when it was brought there by westerners.
Author:  chiwito [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
Thank you to Daal for bringing this to our attention, and thank you to the T's (TMark and Tchan] for the story and photos. They convinced me that I had to buy it, even though, as I mentioned to Tchan on another thread, I usually don't collect book in Asian languages.

chiwito
Author:  judicata [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
kirkmc wrote:
TMark wrote:
A bit more of the story:

1725 saw what was probably the first go copyright case. By applying to the Shogunate, Dochi forced Akiyama Senboku (also known as Ogura Doki) to cease publication of his book Hiden Shusho, Shinsen Gokyo Taizen - Secretly Transmitted Annotations, Newly Compiled Comprehensive Go Manual. The title was a bit of a giveaway.

I doubt that there were specific laws, but each of the Go schools jealously guarded their secrets and research (especially into variants of the taisha) and it may well be considered that Honinbo Dochi was using his status to guard against dissemination of Honinbo house material.

Best wishes.


So would you say it was more like a guild protecting its knowledge, rather than an actual copyright case? From what I can find, copyright didn't exist in Asian countries until the 19th century, when it was brought there by westerners.


The term "copyright" has a meaning independant of copyright laws, and has for a very long time. I'm not versed in the Japanese history here, but if some method was used to prevent the copying and distribution of the work, it seems fair to say it was a copyright issue. It may even be fair to call it the "first go copyright case," even if it was not the first case brought under "copyright laws."
Author:  km1000 [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
What a fantastic find
Congratulations to the lucky buyer :clap:
Author:  tchan001 [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese go book from 1725
Perhaps you might like to take a look at my blog entry again. I have now added my 3 volume version of the 1725 edition.
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