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 Post subject: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #1 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:15 pm 
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Hi all,

It is generally agreed that we should do problems to improve across all levels, unless you are the top players (which will mostly count on AI to improve). Traditionally, the types of problems are tsumegos (life-and-death) and tesujis. I am trying to look for specific types of problems, which seem to be also valuable:

1. Shape problems: I found three volumes of about 950 shape problems, issue solved.

2. Straight attack sequences, as mentioned in the following quote, I found a book called "Yamada Style Strength Training" (山田式 囲碁の筋力トレーニング)
[quote begin]
Yi Ch'ang-Ho Selected Tesuji Problems Volume 4 ... It only deals with a couple of Tesujis (e.g. warikomi, net, snapback and loose ladder), which come up very often in everyday games. ...
[quote end]
SoDesuNe (Experience shared by an adult player)

3. Mid-game fighting problems: One of my teachers says maybe the only way to practice mid-game fighting is by playing actual games, however, I found the following book, the only thing is it is available only in paper format, so I wonder if there’s anything similar?
囲碁の力を強くする本 (The Book to Increase Your Fighting Strength at Go)


Last edited by dino1019 on Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #2 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:25 pm 
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1. Shape problems: In tesuji books there might be specific sections on destroying shape and on building shape. I have seen this in a Japanese book but not organized like that in an English book. Maybe it exists. What book did you find?

2. Straight attack sequences: Attack and Defense (Ishida, Davies) is often recommended.

3. Mid-game fighting problems: are you looking for tesuji or direction of play? Or both? And you want problems? Kiseido has a book of tesuji problems. But I can't recall any book with fighting problems.

What languages are you open to? Seems like Japanese is OK? The Nihok Kiin has various book series and I've seen mention of shape in the comments. These are mostly older books though.

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #3 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:06 pm 
Judan

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There are more than two or three types of problems. Other types of problems train

- evaluation (endgame, positional judgement),
- application of go theory.

In order to improve, problem training must include tactics (there are countless books) and endgame evaluation (read books whose evaluation is correct, such as Endgame Problems 1). For improving by go theory, it depends on the player whether he needs problems or can learn directly from the theory. For tactics and evaluation, however, both theory and problems are mandatory.

For tactical problems, the scope of teaching varies greatly:
- problems without answers,
- problems with only selective answers but without explaining the decision-making well (most problem books are in this category, unfortunately),
- problems with both detailed answers and well explained decision-making (the only such books I know are First Life and Death, Tactical Reading, Capturing Races 2 - Tactical Problems).

As a top player only rely on AI and not do problems? Haha. Expect top players to solve more problems than you can imagine...

Attack and Defense is an only introductory theory book rather than a problem book, has its strengths as such but is weak at explaining the best fighting, which combines attack and defense.

Currently, problem books on application of go theory are often underwhelming. One essentially has to pick whatever is available on a particular topic. Invasion and Reduction (Korean), Vol. 1: 89-7990-043-0, Vol. 2: 89-7990-070-8, Set: 89-7990-042-2 is reasonable though but mostly for dan players.

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #4 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:44 am 
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CDavis7M wrote:
1. Shape problems: In tesuji books there might be specific sections on destroying shape and on building shape. I have seen this in a Japanese book but not organized like that in an English book. Maybe it exists. What book did you find?


I found the following Chinese books in 3 volumes:

圍棋進階練習之棋形篇‧上:基礎棋形
圍棋進階練習之棋形篇‧中:常見棋形
圍棋進階練習之棋形篇‧下:實戰棋形

Literally, the book titles are: Go Advanced Practice Series - Shape Vol. 1 (Basic shapes), Vol. 2 (Common shapes), Vol. 3 (Actual game shapes). Chinese language is not a problem here, since almost no Chinese descriptions, only diagrams. In the meantime, I see an English book called "Shape Up", which addresses shape, also there's a book about shape in the Lee Chang Ho or Cho Hun Hyun series.

CDavis7M wrote:
2. Straight attack sequences: Attack and Defense (Ishida, Davies) is often recommended.


Yes, I see this book recommended at Sensei's library, and from its table of contents, it seems to address many interesting and useful mid-game topics. Of course, that is more of a theory book than problems, in this sense, Yamada style is still useful and is more specific to "straight attack sequence".

CDavis7M wrote:
3. Mid-game fighting problems: are you looking for tesuji or direction of play? Or both? And you want problems? Kiseido has a book of tesuji problems. But I can't recall any book with fighting problems.

What languages are you open to? Seems like Japanese is OK? The Nihok Kiin has various book series and I've seen mention of shape in the comments. These are mostly older books though.


I read Chinese and English, some Japanese is fine.

I am not sure whether mid-game flighting problems is part of tesuji problems, at least not in my limited tesuji collection, here's the problem quoted at Sensei's library:

Reading Problem 1


Last edited by dino1019 on Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #5 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:56 am 
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Hi all,

For the 3rd type of problems and the book: 囲碁の力を強くなる本 in Japanese or The Book to Increase Your Fighting Strength at Go (English translation), the former doesn't ship overseas, and the latter is out of print. Does anyone have that book? Is it the only book in this genre (namely, mid-game fighting problems) ?
Thanks again.

Quote:
3. Mid-game fighting problems: One of my teachers says maybe the only way to practice mid-game fighting is by playing actual games, however, I found the following book, the only thing is it is available only in paper format, so I wonder if there’s anything similar?
囲碁の力を強くする本 (The Book to Increase Your Fighting Strength at Go)

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #6 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:32 am 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
There are more than two or three types of problems. Other types of problems train
- evaluation (endgame, positional judgement),
- application of go theory.
... (snip)


I have two short points here:

1. For end-game study, I will read Lee Chang Ho's 3 volumes. I expect to see more importance of end-game skill when I get stronger.
2. I am not looking at problems of specific topics, the urgent part is about mid-game fighting, which usually involves multiple groups or even the whole board, and directions of play, etc. are common mistakes I make all the time. I do not want to count on luck to win a game, so I'd like to do some problems to improve.

Thanks, Dino

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #7 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:54 am 
Judan

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Although it is a theory book, for your level, my Endgame 1 - Fundamentals (theory without values) is very appropriate but also reading Lee's books surely is a good idea:)

Unfortunately, I am not aware of a good, sufficiently broad problem book (series) on fighting (although some Japanese book has been suggested) but the theory books Attack and Defense (some basics explained well), and Fighting Fundamentals (comprehensive advice on every aspect of fights) teach you very much. (I do not mention books on more specific topics because currently you do not want to read them, or books above your level even if they contain useful information for you.)

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #8 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:19 am 
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dino1019 wrote:
the book: 囲碁の力を強くなる本 in Japanese

I don't have this book but I sent you a link to a seller in your PMs.


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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #9 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:43 pm 
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dino1019 wrote:
3. Mid-game fighting problems: One of my teachers says maybe the only way to practice mid-game fighting is by playing actual games, however, I found the following book, the only thing is it is available only in paper format, so I wonder if there’s anything similar?
囲碁の力を強くする本 (The Book to Increase Your Fighting Strength at Go)

These books have the same contents as Segoe's (& Go Seigen's) Tesuji Dictionaries (either three or two volumes).

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #10 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:05 pm 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Currently, problem books on application of go theory are often underwhelming. One essentially has to pick whatever is available on a particular topic. Invasion and Reduction (Korean), Vol. 1: 89-7990-043-0, Vol. 2: 89-7990-070-8, Set: 89-7990-042-2 is reasonable though but mostly for dan players.


Back to the invasion and reduction categories (or theories, or knowledge points), I understand these are important for high kyu to dan players, and I have tried to find related materials (but not problems). It seems different knowledge points are mutually connected into a whole network, I see:
1. The invasion materials usually cover different common corner or edge shapes and their variations after invasion. In a way, this is like learning josekis, we have to learn the variations and memorize some of the key ones and why some positions are good or bad.
2. Sabaki, a special kind of tesujis, are usually involved in invasion, since the invading party is the weak side. (I see GoMagic has a course about attachment, which should be similar to sabaki)
3. Reduction seems to be a different technique from invasion, but the purpose of reducing territory is the same, I wonder if the theory book should treat invasion and reduction as a spectrum of techniques that can be used depending on the surrounding (or even the whole board) situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #11 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:45 pm 
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Invasion: although there are some invasion / reduction josekis, such is an only small part of the theory. The major part is general knowledge if, when and how to invade / reduce.

Sabaki: it is a concept rather than only occurring as tesujis. It occurs in reductions or other fights.

Reduction can be different from invasion but sometimes moves can have the purpose to be a reduction or invasion depending on the opponent's replies.

Invasions and reductions are strategic concepts. Yes, they should take the local and global positions into account.


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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #12 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:44 am 
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Cassandra wrote:
... These books have the same contents as Segoe's (& Go Seigen's) Tesuji Dictionaries (either three or two volumes).


Segoe Tesuji Dictionary (手筋事典), 3 vols.
Fujisawa Shuko's Dictionary of Basic Tesuji, 4 vols.

It seems fighting problems are kinda covered in the genre: "tesuji dictionary", which one is better?

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 Post subject: Re: Three specific types of (tsumego, tesuji) problems
Post #13 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:53 am 
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Local tactics are a requirement for fighting but that is much about large scale attack, defense, exchanges, gains etc. With tesuji books, you study only a small part of local tactics. Important but studying fighting starts afterwards:)

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