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I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3824		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Josh [ Mon May 09, 2011 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
I have set aside $200 to start a Go library of sorts. I was wondering if anyone could provide me some recommendations with what books I should look at.

First, some details about me. I am currently 11 kyu. I do not own any Go books.

I am thinking of buying the books from Kesido (the books on amazon are ridiculously expensive), but I am not sure which ones would be relevant to my level. I would imagine books from about 12kyu to about 3kyu? That way they will last me for a while.

I know I will need some problem books. I am also looking at buying the whole "Elementary Go Series". I am not really sure what to get.

Thanks for the help!
Author:  Solomon [ Mon May 09, 2011 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
  1. Attack and Defense ($18)
  2. First Kyu ($13)
  3. Fundamental Principles of Go ($25)
  4. Golden Opportunities ($20)
  5. Invincible - The Games of Shusaku ($50)
  6. Lessons In The Fundamentals Of Go ($18)
  7. Making Good Shape ($25)
  8. Opening Theory Made Easy: Twenty Strategic Principles to Improve Your Opening Game ($18)

Total: $187 excluding s/h
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Mon May 09, 2011 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
0. Graded Go Problems for Beginners, Vol. III.

...maaaaybe Vol. II. Later you'll want Vol. IV.
Author:  palapiku [ Mon May 09, 2011 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Trade Invincible for 1971 Honinbo Tournament and 1001 Life And Death Problems.

Later on you might want to buy Invincible in hardcover anyway :)
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon May 09, 2011 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Araban's list looks decent, except for 'Invincible'. At 11K, you are not ready for it. ( No offense, but not yet ) I'd remove 'Invincible' and substitute 'The Direction of Play' by Kajiwara, available used for $20-$30 ( see used.addall.com ) and then you may really have enough to pay for shipping.

Whatever you do, the first book on your list should be Kageyama's 'Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go'.
Second should be 'Direction of Play' by Kajiwara.

You could do just fine with Kajiwara, Kageyama, and the 7 titles from the Elementry Go series.
Author:  cdybeijing [ Mon May 09, 2011 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Araban's list looks decent, except for 'Invincible'. At 11K, you are not ready for it. ( No offense, but not yet ) I'd remove 'Invincible' and substitute 'The Direction of Play' by Kajiwara, available used for $20-$30 ( see used.addall.com ) and then you may really have enough to pay for shipping.

Whatever you do, the first book on your list should be Kageyama's 'Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go'.
Second should be 'Direction of Play' by Kajiwara.

You could do just fine with Kajiwara, Kageyama, and the 7 titles from the Elementry Go series.


Why do you hold Direction of Play in such high regard? That book is quite average, in my opinion.
Author:  Jedo [ Mon May 09, 2011 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
I agree that Direction of Play is a great book, but I think 11k isn't a good strength to read it at. I think it's aimed around 1k/1d
Author:  ethanb [ Mon May 09, 2011 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Same reaction as the people above me, basically. "You think he's not strong enough to benefit from Invincible, but you'd hand him Direction of Play?! <Joaz>Here son, that .22's no good for shooting squirrels - borrow my Howitzer</Joaz>" :lol:

Seriously, I do think there's plenty in Invincible for an 11k though.

Treasure Chest Enigma is one I didn't notice on the above lists - it's great inspiration in the first half, and good long single-path (well, mostly single-path) reading practice in the second half, and everyone can use both of those.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Mon May 09, 2011 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...I'd remove 'Invincible' and substitute 'The Direction of Play' by Kajiwara...


:shock:

What? I read that book at around the OP's level and didn't understand a word of it...
Author:  oren [ Mon May 09, 2011 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
I don't know if I'd put Invincible on the list either. I think now if I would recommend a game collection, I would recommend Kamakura or 1971 Honinbou first and maybe Invincible later.

I'm on the "don't bother with Direction of Play" camp.

I would add "Life and Death" and "Tesuji" from Kiseido as good books as well. Otherwise, Araban's list is good. "First Kyu" is an interesting recommendation. :)
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon May 09, 2011 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Araban wrote:
  1. Attack and Defense ($18)
  2. First Kyu ($13)
  3. Fundamental Principles of Go ($25)
  4. Golden Opportunities ($20)
  5. Invincible - The Games of Shusaku ($50)
  6. Lessons In The Fundamentals Of Go ($18)
  7. Making Good Shape ($25)
  8. Opening Theory Made Easy: Twenty Strategic Principles to Improve Your Opening Game ($18)

Total: $187 excluding s/h


First kyu does not make him stronger. (Entertainment.)

Golden Opportunities: Wasted money.

Invincible: At 11k, worth for entertainment but not for becoming stronger.

Fundamental Principles of Go + Lessons In The Fundamentals Of Go: Suitable and should be accompanied by
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/Joseki.html

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
'Direction of Play' by Kajiwara.


Direction of Play is outdated theory. Understanding haengma is more useful but may be too advanced for an 11k.
Author:  jts [ Tue May 10, 2011 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
I would throw in a vote for kageyama's "fundamentals," elementary go, and some problem books.

Of the elementary go books, "tesuji" is the best (IMO) because for a beginner it has the most "my god, how is this possible?" moments. That sort of amazement reinforces your desire to study, which is as important as what you study. (of the others, i found the opening book most useful; l&d also useful, but mostly replicated by sensei's library; endgame useful; attack and defense, quite hard to synthesize but very important; 38 joseki was my least favorite, but then, I dislike studying joseki.)

I prefer cho chikun elementary problems to graded go problems, but no one else seems to feel the same way.
Author:  daal [ Tue May 10, 2011 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
I would also recommend that you get a few problem books. Aside from Graded Go Problems for Beginners vols. 2&3 that Daniel the Smith mentioned, I suggest you get 1001 Life and Death problems by Richard Bozulich from the Mastering the Basics series, and Get strong at Tesuji, also compiled by Bozulich, from the Get Strong at Go series. Whatever you get, you certainly have enough to keep you busy. :)
Author:  topazg [ Tue May 10, 2011 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Attack and defense is an amazingly useful book - may be hard as a DDK, but worth it anyway.
First kyu may well be interesting and fun as a read, but I wasn't aware it was aimed to help anyone get stronger.
Fundamental principles is excellent, although has quite a lot of harder material in it, it covers bases really well.
Golden Opportunities I've heard a lot of people rave about, including dan players (except for Robert it seems), but I've not read it myself.
Invincible I'd wait until 5k+
Lessons in the fundamentals is one of my favourite books for content and humour, although a lot of people dislike the tone and manner in which the material is presented.
Making good shape I've never read, and don't know enough about.
Opening theory made easy is a must buy for an 11k, definitely should be there.

I also think Direction of Play is excellent, but aimed higher. Any theory outdatedness that Robert alludes to is irrelevant to a non-mid-dan + anyway.
I agree with jts, Tesuji in the elementary go series should definitely be on there.
Also think Graded Go problems for beginners II and III should be there. I is likely to be a bit easy but you may want it if you want to collect the set.
I suspect daal's recommendations on Bozulich's books are also likely to be good for 11k from what I've heard, but aren't books I've read myself.

Whatever you buy, books I think you simply must get at that level if you don't already own them are:
* Tesuji (Elementary Go Series)
* Attack and Defence (Elementary Go Series)
* Fundamental Principles of Go (Yang)
* Lessons in the fundamentals of Go (Kageyama)
* Opening Theory made easy (Hideo)
* Graded Go Problems III
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Tue May 10, 2011 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Hm, at 11-kyu I think you should focus on tactics, therefore Life-and-Death- and Tesuji-problems.

- 1001 Life-and-Death problems
- Graded Go Problems For Beginners Vol. III
- Graded Go Problems For Beginners Vol. IV
- Get Strong at Tesuji
- Tesuji

"Opening Theory Made Easy" is a very good book and offers all the fundamentals you need in the opening. Later (high SDK) I'd suggest you buy "501 Opening Problems", which really improves you judgement in the opening (e.g. big/urgent moves).

After tactics comes strategy, so "Attack and Defense" is a must! I think it's the best Go book on strategy for intermediate players.

Later on (high SDK), you might want to buy the Yi Chang'ho Life-and-Death- and Tesuji-problem-books (six each).
Author:  hyperpape [ Tue May 10, 2011 3:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
The OP said he wanted a go library. He did not say he wanted the optimal go library for improvement. I assume he does want to get better, but maybe he wants something fun as well.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue May 10, 2011 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
cdybeijing wrote:
...

Why do you hold Direction of Play in such high regard? ....


Because my stones told me that it was a great book. :)
Author:  Horibe [ Tue May 10, 2011 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
Araban wrote:
  1. Attack and Defense ($18)
  2. First Kyu ($13)
  3. Fundamental Principles of Go ($25)
  4. Golden Opportunities ($20)
  5. Invincible - The Games of Shusaku ($50)
  6. Lessons In The Fundamentals Of Go ($18)
  7. Making Good Shape ($25)
  8. Opening Theory Made Easy: Twenty Strategic Principles to Improve Your Opening Game ($18)

Total: $187 excluding s/h


This is a GREAT list. I 100% agree with 1,3,5-8.

First Kyu is a GREAT idea as well. It could easily cement your love of go (baduk) forever. If you are pretty well hooked already, I would substitue TESUJI from the Elementary series

Golden Opportunities I guess I have to take another look at, but I would substitue LIFE and DEATH from the Elementary series.

But these are quibbles - great list.
Author:  cramnhoj [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Go World Archive.
Author:  oren [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I have $200 to spend on books, what should I get?
cramnhoj wrote:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Go World Archive.


I would highly recommend the Kiseido Digital Bookshelf, but I still don't consider these books yet. If asked about e-books and books it would be different.
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