Life In 19x19
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Book or PDF?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4846		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Book or PDF?
As I am considering to publish some book as a PDF file, I would like to hear what you want.
Author:  daal [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Your second joseki book is one of the next books on my purchase list, and I would only want it in book form. I have no e-reader, and I dislike reading books on a laptop, so for me an additional pdf file is uninteresting.
Author:  kirkmc [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Why only PDF? Why not ePub or mobi format? PDF is far too limited for ebook readers; the layout is static, unlike the other formats.
Author:  p2501 [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Either book or smartgo book / ebook. PDF is also just asking for piracy. Opportunity makes thiefes.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
kirkmc wrote:
Why only PDF? Why not ePub or mobi format? PDF is far too limited for ebook readers; the layout is static, unlike the other formats.


PDF has great advantages:
- PDF/A is secure (no scripting malware)
- PDF/A shows the intended layout everywhere; static means stupid software should not have problems knowing how to show layout
- PDF works on all platforms with commonly, easily available and free PDF readers
- static format means the reader profits from the author's effort to present exactly the most relevant information; the reader is not tempted into learning less by losing sight of the essential and most relevant contents
- static forces the reader to educate his reading skills because he cannot avoid that by clicking through variations
- printing results in book quality layout

ePub has these advantages (I guess):
- flexible layout so that also tiny screens allow easy viewing
- playing through variations is possible (But is that an advantage?! A book should already show everything relevant rather than hide it.)

What is mobi?

I think that ePub has its good application purposes, too. Not for the kind of theory-emphasising books I am currently writing though. They are not pure, say, joseki variations dictionaries; those might better be published (if in electronic form) as SGF or ePub. Maybe ePub has some justification also for game commentary with sparse comments amidst of mostly the game sequences themselves.

Why only PDF? Creating theory-heavy go contents ePub requires much greater time effort than PDF. Thus ePub would require a much higher price than PDF, especially if it is a second, alternative file format on offer. PDF is a "1 second effort". To start with, for ePub, I would need, to embed about 1,000 SGFs.

Are there SGF-capable (or however it works) ePub-Viewers for operating systems other than iOS?
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
I'd never buy a PDF-document because I have no e-reader and I don't think I would need one in the near future. I would have to print it out then and that's the same as buying the book in the first place.
Since it was mentioned: I would not buy any smart-kifu "book" as well. Primarily because I don't have any Apple hardware and secondary it's still reading on a screen and I don't find this very comfortable nor do I see the benefit with browsing through variations. That's a point I also don't like about online reviews. I think using diagrams for the important sequences is way more efficient because the reader will - in my opionion - focus a lot more on those few moves than letting them "pass through".
Furthermore if you have static diagramme it is easier to follow the text which will not vanish if you click forward.

But yeah, I won't buy anything I have to read on a screen.
Author:  quantumf [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
One way of studying I'm finding quite enjoyable at the moment is to place my laptop next to my goban, and read pdf go books. I find moving back and forward thru the text can be achieved with a single finger of my left hand, while I can explore/play out the discussed variations on the board with my right hand.

When I don't have an electronic document, I still have to do it the old fashioned way with the book or magazine next to the board, but this does not work as well. Admittedly there are not a lot of documents in this form, apart from the poor quality pirate scans (discussed elsewhere), which is a little disappointing and frustrating to me.
Author:  kirkmc [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Robert,

A few comments regarding your comments to my question.

PDF is secure. So is epub and mobi. (BTW, mobi is the format used by the Kindle.) There is no possibility of scripts, though why that is an issue for your book, I know now.

PDF does maintain layout, but not flow. In other words, if you read on a tablet, the fonts will be very small. The other formats allow users to change the font size.

You say this:

Quote:
- static format means the reader profits from the author's effort to present exactly the most relevant information; the reader is not tempted into learning less by losing sight of the essential and most relevant contents


Sorry, I have no idea what you mean.

As for epub, you cannot play through variations. Anders' format is not epub.

As for creating an epub, it takes just a few minutes longer than creating a PDF, if you have the right tool.
Author:  gurujeet [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
I'm a recent convert to eReading and would prefer either epub or pdf. I've purchased several electronic technical bboks from O'Reilly and they offer both formats and allow you to download both of them. I have a Nook Color that my wife and I share and we are considering a Kindle Fire also.

I don't have any electronic go books yet, but would purchase in that format over print if available.
Author:  prokofiev [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
PDF is a good format for a go book. Using epub or mobi with something with lots of diagrams, the result is at best ugly and at worst unreadable. On any device that can handle the size (computers and large tablets and ereaders), I think a PDF is better. Personally I'm okay with small fonts and read PDF documents on my phone even, though for just text with no important formatting, diagrams, symbols, or pictures, I do prefer epub or mobi. I understand some will want larger fonts for small devices, so if you think there's enough of a market, you could offer multiple formats (may as well offer all three if you're going that way), but I wouldn't leave out PDF.
Author:  LocoRon [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
I enjoy reading PDFs on my Xoom. I have never thought the font to be too small (I read with the Xoom in portrait mode, so it only displays one page at a time--if I was set on having two pages at a time, in landscape mode, then yeah, it'd probably be too small).

That said, as a consumer (that wants to "go digital"), I see very little incentive to actually do so, considering the digital versions of most products tend to cost almost exactly the same of the physical product (I've even seen some examples that cost more). If there is no difference in the cost, then I simply cannot justify buying the digital version (receiving a physical copy implies value to me, since that costs physical resources that cannot just be copied infinitely).
Author:  Bill Spight [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
kirkmc wrote:
Why only PDF? Why not ePub or mobi format? PDF is far too limited for ebook readers; the layout is static, unlike the other formats.


Kirk, is there a good book format for HTML?

Thanks. :)
Author:  oren [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
I would pay for a PDF. I'm going to print it out anyway to read, since I don't have a tablet or reader right now and PDF is perfect for that.
Author:  daal [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
oren wrote:
I would pay for a PDF. I'm going to print it out anyway to read, since I don't have a tablet or reader right now and PDF is perfect for that.


Isn't a book cheaper, easier, of higher quality and more lasting value?
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
kirkmc wrote:
secure. So is epub and mobi. (BTW, mobi is the format used by the Kindle.)


I see.

Quote:
PDF does maintain layout, but not flow. In other words, if you read on a tablet, the fonts will be very small. The other formats allow users to change the font size.


Good point, but (subject to your screen size) you can choose a bigger view (so that the contents width still fits on the screen).

Quote:
As for epub, you cannot play through variations. Anders' format is not epub.


Oh, now I am disappointed of ePub:)

Quote:
As for creating an epub, it takes just a few minutes longer than creating a PDF, if you have the right tool.


Even without SGFs a la Anders, for ePub I would do a complete reformatting of all layout elements. So I would expect at least 3 days extra work if all goes well. That is because for PDF I use lots of layout elements (I put diagrams in OpenOffice tables so that they have a good static layout) that essentially I would need to abandon.
Author:  Li Kao [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Bill Spight wrote:
kirkmc wrote:
Why only PDF? Why not ePub or mobi format? PDF is far too limited for ebook readers; the layout is static, unlike the other formats.


Kirk, is there a good book format for HTML?

Thanks. :)

Not sure what you mean. ePub is basically html+css+images in a zip file with a bit of meta data. (If I recall correctly it defines a subset of xhtml1.0 and css 2.x but it has been a while since I read the spec).
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Funny thing is: Today I checked a German law (Buchpreisbindungsgesetz) to see if I MAY set different prices for book and PDF at all. Germany, you know...! But actually I am lucky: If the book is written in a foreign language (English!) and aimed mostly for the non-German market (sure!), then Buchpreisbindung (fixed price for all forms of a book) does not apply. Now that is really good because the same price for a printed and an electronic books does not make much sense: production costs differ extremely!
Author:  Li Kao [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
RobertJasiek wrote:
Funny thing is: Today I checked a German law (Buchpreisbindungsgesetz) to see if I MAY set different prices for book and PDF at all. Germany, you know...! But actually I am lucky: If the book is written in a foreign language (English!) and aimed mostly for the non-German market (sure!), then Buchpreisbindung (fixed price for all forms of a book) does not apply. Now that is really good because the same price for a printed and an electronic books does not make much sense: production costs differ extremely!

IANAL, but my understanding is that the Buchpreisbindung only applies to books of one edition. So you can offer an ebook with a different price than the printed edition, just like paperback can have a different price from a hardcover.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Softcover - hardcover can have different prices. But current predominating interpretation of the law is that ebooks are just another variation (not: edition) of the same book, so it would have to have either the soft- or the hardcover's price:) Different editions (much altered contents) are possible but circumventing the law for its own sake is not ok. After 18 months after a publication, a publisher gets more freedom.
Author:  Xyiana [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book or PDF?
Some PDF readers are with reflow feature.

I prefer paper book + smartgo book together
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