Life In 19x19 :: Book suggestions

I have nothing on L&D or Handicap Go because I feel that I should probably first reread the those volumes of Elementary Go Series and then decide how much more I want to read on those subjects):

The books on L&D in the Elementary Go Series would be Tesuji and Life and Death. Reread those. Then get some more L&D books, perhaps Graded go problems for beginners which is more than just L&D. Then reread those. Then get some more. Don't waste your time on strategic thinking when you are still being bullied in L&D, which is the case judging from your rank. It's when you can live and kill stones left and right but still lose that you need to brush up your strategy.

I would purchase and read all of the following before anything on your list:

8. Problem collections
Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 2
Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 3
Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 4
1001 Life and Death Problems
Get Strong at Tesuji

This will improve your play more than anything you listed.

dfan wrote:

I'm starting to come to this conclusion as well. I like the subject matter in a lot of these books, and I want to study higher level strategy and concepts. But then I came to realize I'm just not strong enough at L&D and fighting to worry about that other stuff. It is a humbling admission, and I'm not saying the other stuff doesn't help at all, but it is far less helpful if I'm letting live groups die left and right (at least, when I face an opponent that can manage it).

I would recommend NOT getting 21st Century by Go Seigen. Don't get me wrong, it's a quality book, but the fuseki theories covered in the book assume a matured knowledge of fundamental opening principles that I don't think 8 kyu players have (well, maybe an exception can be made for goddess

).

It's a fascinating and at times very unorthodox of a read, but as far as books that have the greatest potential for improving SDK players go, I don't think this book is such a great pick.

Thanks for mentioning. This fits best to me. Joseki und Fuseki is over my head (except for some very basic things of course), I feel reluctant to learn, because I cannot memorize. With tesuji and L&D it's different. I can scale their difficulty just according to my needs. There are still tons of tesuji and L&D problems on my shelf, and every evening when I want to go to bed, they are calling "c'mon, read me, solve me, learn me!", even the new one's ('200 Endgame Problems' and 'Magic of Placement'). It's so tempting

Is there a special way you learn tesuji?

One can have a pro-level opening for the first 20 moves, but if one cannot read or fight well, one can still be stuck at kyu levels

Author:	tj86430 [ Tue May 11, 2010 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Book suggestions
I know this topic is very similar to a couple of others, but I still thought I will start a new thread with quite specific questions. Background: I have read the Elementary Go Series (all volumes) as well as Opening Theory Made Easy and Get Strong at Opening. I'm 8kyu at the moment. I can not really say what my strengths or weaknesses are, I guess I have no strengths worth mentioning but numerous weaknesses. Now I'm looking for suggestions which books to buy next. I have listed some candidates and categorized them on subject (some may be in the wrong category, so please correct when necessary. I have nothing on L&D or Handicap Go because I feel that I should probably first reread the those volumes of Elementary Go Series and then decide how much more I want to read on those subjects): 1. Fuseki Dictionary of Basic Fuseki 1-3 by Rin Kaiho Direction of Play by Takeo Kajiwara Modern Joseki and Fuseki 1-2 by Eio Sakata Fuseki (Nihon Kiin Small Encyclopedia) 2. Joseki Dictionary of Basic Joseki 1-3 by Yoshio Ishida Get Strong at Joseki 1-3 by Richard Bozulich All About Joseki by Jiang & Guo Punishing and Correcting Joseki Mistakes by Mingjiu Jiang 3. Tactics Counting Liberties and Winning Capturing Races by Richard Hunter Dictionary of Basic Tesuji 1-4 by Shuko Fujisawa 4. Strategy Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go by Toshiro Kageyama Middle Game of Go by Eio Sakata A Way of Play for 21st Century by Go Seigen Get Strong at invading by Richard Bozulich Get Strong at attacking by Richard Bozulich Reducing Territorial Frameworks by Shuko Fujisawa Fundamental Principles of Go by Yilun Yang Come up to Shodan by Rin Kaiho How not to play go by Yuan Zhou 5. Endgame Get Strong at the Endgame by Richard Bozulich 6. Styles Style of Go Seigen by Yuan Zhou Fighting Styles of Kato Masao & Seo Bong Soo by Yuan Zhou Style of Lee Changho by Yuan Zhou Style of Takemiya by Yuan Zhou Territorial Styles of Kitani Minoru and Cho Chikun by Yuan Zhou 7. Game Collections Invincible: The games of Shusaku by John Power Kamakura by John Fairbairn Final Summit by Fairbairn/Hall I have left out some books that might be of interest, but which are hard/impossible to get. Any comments on these and suggestions on others are greatly appreciated.

Author:	Solomon [ Tue May 11, 2010 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I would recommend NOT getting 21st Century by Go Seigen. Don't get me wrong, it's a quality book, but the fuseki theories covered in the book assume a matured knowledge of fundamental opening principles that I don't think 8 kyu players have (well, maybe an exception can be made for goddess ). It's a fascinating and at times very unorthodox of a read, but as far as books that have the greatest potential for improving SDK players go, I don't think this book is such a great pick.

Author:	Phelan [ Wed May 12, 2010 1:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I have Get Strong at invading by Richard Bozulich, and since I'm around your level, I wouldn't recommend it. It's a book of problems on corner and side invasions(edit: just checked, also "large territories"), going over some of the common patterns (don't know if they are actually joseki) that occur. However, each problem has only two answer diagrams, one for failure and one for success. Sometimes you wonder why he doesn't cover a particular move, only to be confronted with it as a problem later. So, it is neither a problem book that you can take with you and read on breaks/transportation, nor a textbook on invading. I like the subject matter, but I don't think it is presented in the best manner. I'm trying to slog through the book now, and my mind keeps getting pulled elsewhere. I don't know if I'll finish it. One positive thing about the book is that as a 15k, I learned that there were a lot of places that could still be invaded to get some profit, even though they looked secure.

Author:	kirkmc [ Wed May 12, 2010 2:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I'd say get them all. And definitely add Richard Hunter's Cross-Cut Workshop to the list; it's helped me a lot understand what can be a very complex technique.

Author:	CarlJung [ Wed May 12, 2010 2:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
tj86430 wrote: I have nothing on L&D or Handicap Go because I feel that I should probably first reread the those volumes of Elementary Go Series and then decide how much more I want to read on those subjects): The books on L&D in the Elementary Go Series would be Tesuji and Life and Death. Reread those. Then get some more L&D books, perhaps Graded go problems for beginners which is more than just L&D. Then reread those. Then get some more. Don't waste your time on strategic thinking when you are still being bullied in L&D, which is the case judging from your rank. It's when you can live and kill stones left and right but still lose that you need to brush up your strategy.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Book suggestions http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=510	Page 1 of 2

Author:	tj86430 [ Wed May 12, 2010 2:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
CarlJung wrote: The books on L&D in the Elementary Go Series would be Tesuji and Life and Death. Reread those. Then get some more L&D books, perhaps Graded go problems for beginners which is more than just L&D. Then reread those. Then get some more. Don't waste your time on strategic thinking when you are still being bullied in L&D, which is the case judging from your rank. It's when you can live and kill stones left and right but still lose that you need to brush up your strategy. I may be bullied in L&D, but I haven't really noticed that as a problem. I think I'm fairly competent in killing and at least somewhat decent in living, but of course I may be completely wrong. Of course having an expert assessment of my games would help to determine if I'm completely off in that self-assessment. Anyone is more than welcome to look at my games in KGS, my nick there is same as here.

Author:	dfan [ Wed May 12, 2010 6:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I would purchase and read all of the following before anything on your list: 8. Problem collections Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 2 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 3 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 4 1001 Life and Death Problems Get Strong at Tesuji This will improve your play more than anything you listed.

Author:	judicata [ Wed May 12, 2010 7:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
dfan wrote: I would purchase and read all of the following before anything on your list: 8. Problem collections Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 2 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 3 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 4 1001 Life and Death Problems Get Strong at Tesuji This will improve your play more than anything you listed. I'm starting to come to this conclusion as well. I like the subject matter in a lot of these books, and I want to study higher level strategy and concepts. But then I came to realize I'm just not strong enough at L&D and fighting to worry about that other stuff. It is a humbling admission, and I'm not saying the other stuff doesn't help at all, but it is far less helpful if I'm letting live groups die left and right (at least, when I face an opponent that can manage it).

Author:	Ember [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
judicata wrote: dfan wrote: I would purchase and read all of the following before anything on your list: 8. Problem collections Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 2 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 3 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 4 1001 Life and Death Problems Get Strong at Tesuji This will improve your play more than anything you listed. I'm starting to come to this conclusion as well. I like the subject matter in a lot of these books, and I want to study higher level strategy and concepts. But then I came to realize I'm just not strong enough at L&D and fighting to worry about that other stuff. It is a humbling admission, and I'm not saying the other stuff doesn't help at all, but it is far less helpful if I'm letting live groups die left and right (at least, when I face an opponent that can manage it). I would second this but doing nothing but problems seems quite boring - at least to me ^^;. Of course, in being able to read well lies the foundation for good improvement, but if you get bored by overdoing things in one area (= e.g. doing problems), you won't get far, either. I'd recommend the Graded Go Problems series and a good read to keep you interested and motivated and which offers some kind of "distraction". Of course that depends on what you like, but "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go" is always recommended and - having read it myself a few times - it really is a great book! But I also love Invincible, because you can just replay the games and maybe pick some things up (maybe unconsciously) while having a good time or - maybe at a higher level - work really hard on getting as much out of the book as you can. There are a few introduction texts with historical information on Shusaku, his opponents, the castle games etc., and if you are interested in Edo-time Go, then this book is a wonderful choice. What seems like overdoing it for me is thinking about buying Fuseki dictionaries as I don't think that they would be a lot of help at our level of strength (being not that much ahead of you) - there are too many mistakes in our range coming after fuseki to be able to keep the advantages of a very good fuseki. But if you are set on buying a dictionary, maybe this is something for you: What I found very interesting to read (even page by page from the beginning to the end) was Shuko's Tesuji Dictionaries (at least Volume 1 and 2, I don't have the other 2 volumes yet). Shuko arranged the different kinds of tesuji according to their purpose (e.g. first volume is about attacking and presents e.g. tesuji that split enemy groups apart, seal enemy groups in, create weaknesses, spoil the shape of an enemy group, etc.; the second volume is about defending and presents e.g. tesuji that let you connect threatened groups, tesuji that help you escape into the center, let you take sente, etc.). I found this really helpful as you get a lot of practice and can remember the shapes more easily as the structure in which they are presented is very clear. In each chapter, after a short introduction there would come different tesuji-problems to practice with and along with them you not only get the right answers but the wrong ones, too, which is really helpful and instructive in its own way as well.

Author:	judicata [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
Thanks for the post, Ember. That is a very good point, and I hadn't thought about it because I just now started dedicating most of my study to problems. But you're right--doing 100% problems might get boring after awhile (and to be bored is not my reason for playing go). I think I'll try an 80%/20% problems/other study for now and see how it goes.

Author:	Ember [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
You're welcome, judicata. The 80-20%-part sounds good, have fun! ^^

Author:	SoDesuNe [ Wed May 12, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
If you have enough of problems, I'd recommend to pick books like 'Kage's secret to handicap Go' (I'm not sure, if there are others, though). You're often asked for the next move and now you can try your reading ability a bit and you can base your decision on it. I solved more than half of the multiple-choice-questions wrong, but I liked elaborating on the variations. Furthermore there are at least three good patterns to memorize in it. A read I'm going to enjoy the next weeks is '38 basic Josekis'. Well written and really fundamental (at 15k, I thought that was Dan-level-materia : ( ).

Author:	Gresil [ Thu May 13, 2010 3:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I suggest Graded Go Problems vol. 3, Get Strong at Tesuji and Attack & Defense. Final Summit will be difficult to penetrate below strong SDK level.

Author:	Dante31 [ Sat May 15, 2010 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I think at 8k you want to stick with life and death books like: 1001 Life and Death Problems. I doubt that you will really want to look at Dictionary of Basic Fuseki or styles of pro players at this time. I could be wrong.

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Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat May 15, 2010 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
Araban wrote: I would recommend NOT getting 21st Century by Go Seigen. Don't get me wrong, it's a quality book, but the fuseki theories covered in the book assume a matured knowledge of fundamental opening principles that I don't think 8 kyu players have (well, maybe an exception can be made for goddess ). It's a fascinating and at times very unorthodox of a read, but as far as books that have the greatest potential for improving SDK players go, I don't think this book is such a great pick. When I first read this note, I thought you were saying that fewer than 8 kyu players in the world have such a mature knowledge of opening principles. It's a wonderful book, but not for most kyu players, I think.

Author:	Actorios [ Sun May 16, 2010 2:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I'm 6k KGS and I didn't manage to go through the full Elementary Go Serie still. I therefore think this serie is incredibly meaty and you could improve and learn from just re-reading it, taking your time. Some books which were over my head when I started now sound readable. I think you unveil understanding capabilities as you improve your reading skill. To get back to your question, I recommend as well The Graded Go Problems for Beginners serie as well as any other problem book of your level. Those will improve your reading skill which is the main driver to get stronger. The more I buy go books (and I've bought quite a few), the more I believe the basic books can be sufficient for a long time. If you get let's say all the problems in "Tesuji" right when you solve them, then maybe you need to get to something else to read... Personnally, I'm miles away from there.

Author:	cdybeijing [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
I come from a chess background. I completely understand the impulse of wanting to read strategy books compulsively. I've been learning go for 9 months and I am about 3k. Under the guidance of many strong players, I have resisted the impulse to read and read and read books. Here's what I have done so far which I think echos what some players stronger than I are suggesting as valuable steps: 1. Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go (1st read) 2. Opening Theory Made Easy (maybe not the most efficient way, but a great book for beginners) 3. Attack and Defence 4. Lessons in the Fundaments of Go (2nd read) 5. Life and Death (1st half of the book) 6. Get Strong at Tesuji / Tesuji Now, I do nothing but alternate Tesuji and Life and Death problems, focusing on problems I can solve in 2 minutes or less. I'm convinced there's no better way to spend my study time. Also, review every game you play.

Author:	karaklis [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
Thanks for mentioning. This fits best to me. Joseki und Fuseki is over my head (except for some very basic things of course), I feel reluctant to learn, because I cannot memorize. With tesuji and L&D it's different. I can scale their difficulty just according to my needs. There are still tons of tesuji and L&D problems on my shelf, and every evening when I want to go to bed, they are calling "c'mon, read me, solve me, learn me!", even the new one's ('200 Endgame Problems' and 'Magic of Placement'). It's so tempting Is there a special way you learn tesuji?

Author:	cdybeijing [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
karaklis wrote: Thanks for mentioning. This fits best to me. Joseki und Fuseki is over my head (except for some very basic things of course), I feel reluctant to learn, because I cannot memorize. With tesuji and L&D it's different. I can scale their difficulty just according to my needs. There are still tons of tesuji and L&D problems on my shelf, and every evening when I want to go to bed, they are calling "c'mon, read me, solve me, learn me!", even the new one's ('200 Endgame Problems' and 'Magic of Placement'). It's so tempting Is there a special way you learn tesuji? Not really. I don't like to labor over them too much, so I try to work with problems I can do in a couple minutes or less. I'm currently going through Get Strong at Tesuji and do about 15 problems each way on my 30 minute commute to work. Based on the advice of some strong players I know, I'm also starting to do a few harder life and death problems that force me to read sequences out completely and hold longer and longer variations in my head. I personally like working with books that have a semi-random order i.e. not 10 problems in a row of the same tesuji or placement. I think the important thing is that you have to enjoy doing them.

Author:	Hushfield [ Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Book suggestions
dfan wrote: I would purchase and read all of the following before anything on your list: 8. Problem collections Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 2 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 3 Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 4 1001 Life and Death Problems Get Strong at Tesuji This will improve your play more than anything you listed. This. Anything that requires you to read out a lot of sequences by yourself. And try not to look at the answers. Also, throw in (see what I did there?) Kageyama's Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go, and continue to re-read Davies' Life and Death and Tesuji. I strongly believe that for a non-dan amateur to improve his game what is needed above all else are a strong grasp of some fundamental principles (e.g. cutting and connecting) and confidence acquired through tons of reading (sequences, that is: doing tsumego). Edit: After I posted this I read the following in another thread: EdLee wrote: One can have a pro-level opening for the first 20 moves, but if one cannot read or fight well, one can still be stuck at kyu levels So there you have it. Buy and read more problem books.