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Book Help
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5408		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Voltare [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Book Help
I need some help deciding which Go books I should buy. I have read Go for Beginners by Kaoru Iwamoto and while I found it helpful, it was also very light since it went over just the basics. I am looking for a new meater book to digest. I am trying to decide between Elementary Go Series and Learn to Play Go.

I am leaning towards Learn to Play Go since I can get all 5 books for a little less than 30 dollars but I wouldn't mind spending more money on the other series if it is better.

What are your opinions on this?
Author:  CnP [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
I'd vote for neither and suggest the "2nd book of Go". You'll get loads of use of the Elementary Go series but you dont need to buy the whole series straight away. The 2nd book of Go is a decent overview to all aspects of the game and a good step up from your first book.
edit: some people love the Janice Kim books but the only volume I ever bought seemed far too low on content. The E.G.S. offer much better value for money IMO
Author:  jts [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
In my opinion, Elementary Go is way better. This is especially true if good writing is important to you. I also find the organization of that series much more self-evident and rewarding. The "Tesuji" volume is many players' favorite book.

However, Elementary Go is quite meaty. If you would feel discouraged if you bought them and then decided you're not ready for them yet, and you're certain that you want a book rather than focusing on playing games, you might want to start with either "The Second Book of Go" (which is intended to be, ahem, the second book of go theory which you read) or one of the volumes of "Graded Go Problems for Beginners".
Author:  hyperpape [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
I think the elementary go series is good, but there's a pretty big range of skill levels. Life & Death and Tesuji are the two I'd recommend to relatively new players. Attack and Defense and The Endgame are really for 15-10k or so.

(I don't like In the Beginning, but the level is right).
Author:  Redbeard [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
I think you should get a game collection like Kamakura or a collection of Tsumego. Don't fill your beginner mind with strategy. Work on Go problems, learning shapes and reviewing games. And play play play.
Author:  karaklis [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
hyperpape wrote:
Life & Death and Tesuji are the two I'd recommend to relatively new players.

I think these two are quite tough for beginners. Not to be recommended to players below 15k.

hyperpape wrote:
Attack and Defense and The Endgame are really for 15-10k or so.

"The Endgame" is even tougher. I am mid-SDK and still find it a bit too difficult.

hyperpape wrote:
(I don't like In the Beginning, but the level is right).

"In the Beginning" was my first go book, and I found it excellent. Together with practice at 312go.org it got me from nothing to 15k in a short time.

Redbeard wrote:
or a collection of Tsumego. Don't fill your beginner mind with strategy. Work on Go problems, learning shapes and reviewing games. And play play play.


I second that. An excellent choice for tsumego is "Graded Go Problems for Beginners". If you are very beginner, Vol. 1 and 2 should be the books of your choice. If you have already some experience, i.e. around 20k on KGS, you can skip vol. 1.
Author:  hyperpape [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
The trick about both Life & Death and Tesuji is that they cover a range of difficulties. When I first looked at L&D, I could follow maybe the first four or five chapters.

Tesuji is a bit more forgiving, imho.
Author:  jts [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
To chime in again, I think that life and death problems would be more useful than Elementary Go at least up until the 10k level, and probably beyond that. However, if you enjoy studying more than doing problems, or if you are curious to read about Go even if it doesn't help you improve right away, I would propose a different order.

In the Beginning

Yeah, you can read this right away. However, what you'll get out of it will be pretty well covered in game reviews (do you know that there are infinite numbers of people who will review your games in the KGS Teaching Ladder or the Beginner's Room? or you can post them here, or submit them to the Go Teaching Ladder website), so it wouldn't hurt at all if you delayed reading this until 10k.


38 Basic Joseki

People generally don't like this one as much, and besides, memorizing joseki is a horrible way for beginners to improve. I would skip it.

Tesuji
You will find this very interesting as soon as you get to 15k, or even earlier. By the time you get to 10k it will be one of the books that can help you the most, even more than doing life and death problems.


Life and Death

This one is pretty hard. There are some basic ideas in the first few chapters that beginners can benefit from, but you would also get these in "The Second Book of Go," in game reviews, or just from browsing around Sensei's library. The rest of the material gets harder and harder. If life and death is your specialty, you might start this at 10k, but it probably makes more sense to wait until 5k.


Attack and Defense

This is a little different from the Tesuji and Life and Death in that in those books, the overarching concepts are easy to grasp but the mechanics are very hard to read out. Here, the reading isn't horribly hard but the concepts are difficult until you have a little bit of experience. You could probably read it at 15k and find it really interesting, but you could also put off a first read until 10k and then go back and reread it carefully at 7-5k.


Endgame
The essence of good endgame is being painstakingly careful at the very end of the game. (Okay, endgame is fighting strength, but...) This may seem like a truism, but it matters a lot for how early you should read this. If you really like taking a lot of care over the end of your games to squeeze out every last point, you could read this at 20k-15k and get a lot out of it. If you hate being careful, or if you're always tired at the end of your games and want to rush through it even if it costs your the win, it probably doesn't make sense to read this until you're dan-level.

...looking back over this, it seems like I'm saying the series really isn't any good until you're 10k or better. But that not to say that some other series would be better for 20k-10k... that's just a range where you can improve very quickly by playing and doing problems.
Author:  daal [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
Since you've already read one book, The Second Book of Go by Richard Bozulich is an obvious choice, and quite a good ...second book. I also liked the Janice Kim books quite a bit when I was getting started, and 30$ is quite reasonable, but the books I've re-read the most were from the Elementary Go Series.
Author:  Tengen [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
Voltare wrote:
I need some help deciding which Go books I should buy. I have read Go for Beginners by Kaoru Iwamoto and while I found it helpful, it was also very light since it went over just the basics. I am looking for a new meater book to digest. I am trying to decide between Elementary Go Series and Learn to Play Go.

I am leaning towards Learn to Play Go since I can get all 5 books for a little less than 30 dollars but I wouldn't mind spending more money on the other series if it is better.

What are your opinions on this?

I'd strongly recommend "Fundamental Principles of Go", which would teach you a lot about the opening, attacking, relationships between stones, etc. FWIW, I own the books in both series that you mention, and between the two I like the Elementary Go Series much better. There's nothing wrong with Learn to Play Go, but the Elementary series has about 10x more information and will keep you occupied for much longer. Also, you could cut down costs by skipping 38 Basic Joseki, which is outdated and seems to be by far the least popular book in the series.

As far as authors go, you can't go wrong with Yilun Yang or Yuan Zhou (my personal favorite), but Zhou's books are probably too advanced for you at this point.
Author:  dfan [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
hyperpape wrote:
I think the elementary go series is good, but there's a pretty big range of skill levels. Life & Death and Tesuji are the two I'd recommend to relatively new players. Attack and Defense and The Endgame are really for 15-10k or so.

(I don't like In the Beginning, but the level is right).

There's a lot of good stuff in the Elementary Go Series, but the skill level is all over the map, and there are probably better introductory books that have been written since then (the 1970s). They are the books that I learned from, so I have rather strong opinions about their strengths and weaknesses. My quick reactions and guesses at good grade ranges:

I. In the Beginning is fine (although Opening Theory Made Easy covers the same material and is better in my opinion). I'd say 15k-5k is a good range.

II. 38 Basic Joseki is okay but old. I guess around 10k is a good time for this, but honestly I would find a different joseki book.

III. Tesuji is very good. Big range of material organized into a very useful taxonomy. Just don't get too frustrated if you can't do everything. 15k-1k.

IV. Life and Death set my Go progress back by years. I thought it was all knowledge I was supposed to master by 10k, but the level rises really fast (I'm pretty sure there's dan-level stuff in there). Do Graded Go Problems for Beginners instead or Essential Life & Death for a graded course. 15k-3d?

V. Attack and Defense is one of my favorite books. You can read it once a year and get something more out of it each time. 10k-1k.

VI. The Endgame honestly never held my interest enough for me to make much progress. Unfortunately there aren't many good books on the endgame. I'd get an endgame problem book instead. 7k-1k maybe?

VII. Handicap Go was another frustrating book for me; I thought it would be about how to play as a 10k vs a 5k, but it's more about how to play as a 1k vs a 5k. A good topic but I don't think anyone needs to touch this until 5k.
Author:  Mivo [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
I'm actually not a fan of "The Second Book of Go". It tries to cover too much ground in the boring and tedious language that many Go books are written in, and while its goal is to introduce the reader to different aspects of the game, I felt it fell short and caused more confusion than clarity.

I'd recommend to get "Opening Theory Made Easy" and then stay away from books until you're 10k. Maybe some problem books, too. But what you really need to do is play, and a lot.

Much depends on what kind of learner you are, though. If you must chose between those two series, I'd say that Janice Kim's books are much easier to read, but are less "scientific" and contain less information. But the information they do contain is, in my opinion, easier to digest.

But "Opening Theory Made Easy" is still better than all of those. ;)
Author:  Ginger [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
Voltare wrote:
I need some help deciding which Go books I should buy. I have read Go for Beginners by Kaoru Iwamoto and while I found it helpful, it was also very light since it went over just the basics. I am looking for a new meater book to digest. I am trying to decide between Elementary Go Series and Learn to Play Go.

I am leaning towards Learn to Play Go since I can get all 5 books for a little less than 30 dollars but I wouldn't mind spending more money on the other series if it is better.

What are your opinions on this?


I have the learn to play go books and have found them to be very good.
Andrew
Author:  Go_Japan [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Book Help
Well, it is certainly clear from reading this that there are a lot of good books out there. Personally, I enjoyed the Second Book of Go when I started playing years ago. I haven't read it in a long time, but for a while, it was the only book I read on the game. It really improved my game a lot. I actually just recommended it to another friend who started studying and wanted something more than the basics.
I am sure that you will be able to learn something from any book recommended above.
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