RJ, how would you spend USD500 other than buying your own books, because in your case, it's available to you freely since you are the author and you don't need to deduct the sum from your budget
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| Creating the best USD500 go book library http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8636 |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Creating the best USD500 go book library |
If you could spend just USD500 excluding shipping and other charges, what would be the best go book library you could create if you could spend it on books of any language (primarily for an English audience)? I'm basically wondering what would be the most essential books you would want to buy if you could only spend USD500 and you currently do not have a library. You can assume you have a PC with a DVD drive so you can buy legal soft copies, but don't assume things like SmartGo Books for iPad unless you plan to spend part of the USD500 budget buying an iPad, etc. Please restrict yourself to books which are in print and do not offer free resources which do not deduct from your budget of USD500. Please use the publisher prices and don't tell me you are buying 50,000 used go books for a penny each from Amazon marketplace. This is basically an exercise to see what is the best library we can come up with, with a limited budget and limited resources. For simplicity, let's assume the conversion rates as follow (if you can think of any other countries which produces go books and need to include a currency exchange rate here, let me know): 1 USD = 6 RMB = 100 JPY = 1150 KRW = 30 NTD = 0.75 EUR = 33 RUB RMB > China JPY > Japan KRW > Korea NTD > Taiwan EUR > Europe RUB > Russia |
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| Author: | NoSkill [ Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
Lessons in the fundamentals: $18 (go game guru). /$18 Elementary to series: $104 (go game guru) /$122 Improve your intuition volumes 1-3: $15 (slate and shell) /$137 Invincible: $50 (go game guru) /$187 Igo hatsuyoron: $25 (yellow mountain imports). /$213 Xuanxuan Qijang: $20 (yellow mountain imports) /$233 Grades go problems for beginners volumes 1-4: $84 (kisedo) /$317 The direction of play: $18 (kisedo) /$335 Graded go problems for dans volumes 1-6: $150 (kisedo) /$485 So that is $485.. Hopefully you get no tax .-. |
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| Author: | logan [ Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
I'm just going to stick with English books, because if this really is "an exercise to see what is the best library we can come up with a limited budget and limited resources," then shipping charges on import books is a serious consideration (i.e. for a person 500$ on all imported Asian language books compared to 500$ on all English books are two entirely different price ranges). Also, I'm making this list just for fun...so it does not represent any sort of definitive stance on my part.
Most important out-of-print book: All About Life and Death - A Basic Dictionary of Life and Death Vols. 1 & 2 Books I couldn't get to fit: 7$ - Masterpieces of Handicap Go Vol. 1 42$ - Train Like a Pro complete set |
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| Author: | moyoaji [ Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
I'm going to assume this would be for a go club library or something like that, so I'm going to select a wide variety of books that should appeal to many levels of players. Beginner's Books - Because you need something for new players to enjoy - Go: A Complete Introduction to the Game ($15) - The Second Book of Go ($18) Elementary Go Series - Starting point for newer players, problems and reference books for older players - In The Beginning ($18) - 38 Basic Josekis ($18) - Tesuji ($18) - Life and Death ($18) - Attack and Defense ($18) - Endgame ($18) Go Technique - Always good to brush up on - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go ($18) - The Direction of Play ($18) - Mastering the Basics Vol. 3 - Making Good Shape ($25) - Get Strong at Invading ($21) - Get Strong at Handicap Go ($21) - Winning Go: Successful Moves from the Opening to the Endgame ($14) - Dictionary of Basic Fuseki - Volume 1 ($18) - How Not to Play Go ($8) Problem Books - What go library would be complete without them? Mastering the Basics Series - Volume One: 501 Opening Problems ($25) - Volume Two: 1001 Life-and-Death Problems ($25) - Volume Four: 501 Tesuji Problems ($25) Graded Go Problems for Dan Players - Volume Three: 300 Joseki Problems ($25) - Volume Seven: 256 Opening and Middle Game Problems ($25) Other problem books - Life and Death: Intermediate Level Problems ($8) - Liping Huang's Problem Book ($5) Game Reviews - Definitely worth looking at - Invincible: The Games of Shusaku ($50) - Come Up to Shodan ($5) - Modern Masters: Redmond on Pro Games ($8) Fiction - Because sometimes you need a break from studying - The Master of Go ($5) Total library cost: $500 |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
Here is my list: Go: More than a Game Revised Edition [Kindle] USD10.59 Opening Theory Made Easy USD18 Elementary Go Series: Tesuji USD18 Elementary Go Series: Life and Death USD18 Elementary Go Series: Attack and Defense USD18 Elementary Go Series: Endgame USD18 First Fundamentals (pdf) USD16.67 (EUR12.5) 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki, Volume 1 USD55 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki, Volume 2 USD55 Fundamental Principles of Go USD25 Dictionary of Basic Tesuji, vol. 1 USD25 Dictionary of Basic Tesuji, vol. 2 USD25 Dictionary of Basic Tesuji, vol. 3 USD25 Dictionary of Basic Tesuji, vol. 4 USD25 Weiqi Life and Death Big Complete Encyclopedia (Revised Edition) 围棋死活大全(修订本) USD7 (RMB42) Weiqi Fuseki Big Complete Encyclopedia 围棋布局大全 USD8 (RMB48) Weiqi Endgame Big Complete Encyclopedia 围棋官子大全 USD8 (RMB48) New Edition Weiqi Common Shape Tactics Big Complete Encyclopedia (v1-2) 新编围棋常型技巧大全(上下) USD13.17 (RMB79) [A nice book showing lots of invasions and reductions] Weiqi Life and Death 1000 Problems 围棋死活1000题 USD5 (RMB30) Weiqi Fuseki Practice (Beginner Level) 围棋布局习题册(初级) USD2.5 (RMB15) Weiqi Fuseki Practice (Intermediate and Advanced Levels) 围棋布局习题册(中级高级) USD2.5 (RMB15) Weiqi Kyu and Dan Level Test (Beginner Level 1000 problems) 围棋级。段位测试 (初级测试1000题) USD3.5 (RMB21) Weiqi Dan Level Test (Intermediate Level for 1-4D) 围棋段位测试(中级测试业余1-4段) USD3.34 (RMB20) Modern Masters: Redmond on Pro Games USD7.5 The Games of Honinbo Shuei, Volume 1 [Kindle Edition] USD11.99 The Games of Honinbo Shuei, Volume 2 [Kindle Edition] USD11.99 The Games of Honinbo Shuei, Volume 3 [Kindle Edition] USD11.99 The Games of Honinbo Shuei, Volume 4 [Kindle Edition] USD11.99 New Haegma Dictionary 행마 新 사전 USD13.05 (KRW15000) Top 1% v1-3 + Answer Book 최상위 1% 1-3 + 해답편 USD23.92 (KRW27500) TOTAL: USD497.7 Note that the above is based on the publisher recommended prices and not the discounted price at online bookstores. Shipping and other charges are not included in the above. |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
tchan001 wrote: I'm basically wondering what would be the most essential books you would want to buy if you could only spend USD500 and you currently do not have a library. I understand your question to ask literally for which books I would buy for my own current use if I did not have them and could not get them for free because of being their publisher. I would buy books rather than cheaper PDFs, because I prefer to browse books rather than files, even if that means fewer books in the library. The list shows the books I am or should be using the most frequently. It does not include books, whose contents I know by heart. It includes books with easy contents, which I still use regularly to look up the exact, most powerful wording of a principle. (This possibility is worth more than spending money for other books with less useful or without principles.) For kyu players, I would suggest fewer life+death problems books, other problems books and a few more theory books. To be spent EUR 375. Prices in EUR. THEORY - 25, First Fundamentals - 26,5, Joseki 1 Fundamentals - 26,5, Joseki 2 Strategy - 26,5, Joseki 3 Dictionary - 28, Capturing Races 1 Two Basic Groups - 26,5, Positional Judgement 1 Territory - 26,5, Fighting Fundamentals GAMES - ~29, GoGoD CD LIFE+DEATH PROBLEMS - ~20, Hatsuyoron - ~20, Gengen Gokyo - ~20, Kansufu - 11, Modern Dictionary of Life and Death - ~89,5, random selection of other life+death problem books |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
RJ, how would you spend USD500 other than buying your own books, because in your case, it's available to you freely since you are the author and you don't need to deduct the sum from your budget
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
I would like to spend the money on go theory books of equal quality, but since I don't see them for my level and knowledge gaps, I would simply buy yet more intermediate to advanced life+death problem books. FYI, much earlier I read (most of the contents of) tesuji problem books, such as the very expensive Nihon Kiin Tesuji Dictionary. Therefore, they are not on my to-buy list. |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
The Nihon Kiin Tesuji Great Tesuji Encyclopedia is merely expensive. Very expensive starts when you start buying the Nihon Kiin traditional bound limited sets of complete games of certain great Japanese players. And then there is the 1620 Japanese edition of Gengen Gokyou available at Akasiya Shoten bookstore in Tokyo for JPY500,000. That would be prohibitively expensive to me. As would their 1607 edition of Gokyou by Honinbo Sansa available at JPY2,000,000. |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
Marcel, the problem lies deeper: theory books for dans are sparse. Theory books for high dans are essentially non-existing. Existing books for high dans are (mostly life+death) problem books or example-only studies. (Mathematical Go Endgames is an exception, but is useless in practice.) |
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| Author: | gowan [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
IMO all these lists have too many instructional books and too few commented game collections. I would include the DVD archives of the complete Go World. This would give you around 700 commented games, many articles on go theory and many problems on all phases of the game. At a price of around USD $140 for the complete archive it can't be beaten for useful content. That leaves you $360 to buy other game collections or whatever else you might want. The Go World Archives are a tremendous resource which is not sufficiently appreciated. I emphasize commented game collections because explanations of theory will only get you so far. Eventually you have to figure things out for yourself yourself and studying pro games is the best way to do that. If you keep your eyes open, every time you play through a pro game you'll see something new, no matter how strong you become. |
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
gowan wrote: IMO all these lists have too many instructional books and too few commented game collections. I would include the DVD archives of the complete Go World. How about Go Review as well? I just got the DVDs, but I haven't started on any issues yet. |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
gowan, Go World has a great amount of contents, but game commentaries and go theory are at best of intermediate quality. It concentrates too much on a per-move style, so that every move with comments becomes an example with comments. There is little or no generalisation. This kind of game commentary can be found in too many books, journals or other commentaries. Around 3d, I considered that still better than uncommented games. Now, I learn much less per time spent on reading such game commentaries than per time spent on reading and thinking about uncommented games. Similarly, I discover more go theory per time by studying uncommented games than by reading Go World style go theory essays. So my conclusion is: as long as there won't be more high quality go theory books for dans (*), reading per-move example style game commentaries will only get you so far. But then (at the moment (*) and with the exceptions of a tiny number of top level theory books or of doing research by oneself), we agree on "Eventually you have to figure things out for yourself and studying pro games is the best way to do that.";) |
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| Author: | logan [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
Go World, Go Review and so forth are magazines/periodicals, not books. The OP asked for books only. |
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| Author: | John Fairbairn [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
Quote: Similarly, I discover more go theory per time by studying uncommented games than by reading Go World style go theory essays. So my conclusion is: as long as there won't be more high quality go theory books for dans (*), reading per-move example style game commentaries will only get you so far. But then (at the moment (*) and with the exceptions of a tiny number of top level theory books or of doing research by oneself), we agree on "Eventually you have to figure things out for yourself and studying pro games is the best way to do that.";) I agree with Robert on this, with the slight caveat that I think he misses the motivational or inspirational element you can get from commentaries, essays or whatever. It is all very well looking at uncommented games, but when you are faced with 70,000 of them, where do you start? (Answer: with collected games of great masters, I suppose - but then which one?). To give a specific example of the sort of thing you can usefully figure out for yourself (at high dan level): why do the Japanese usually say "gote no sente" (= sente which is gote) of a honte, rather than "sente no gote" (gote which is sente). The latter phrase exists but is not common. Why? Before your fingers dash to the keyboard with a facile reply, do bear in mind that Sekiyama Riichi wrote a famous book called "Gote no Sente" in 1935. Even so, he only (and wisely in my view) drops hints. The broadest is in the sub-title to the book: Preparations for attack. The most subtle hints are in the many variations he discusses for josekis after ootakamoku (F4), which is how the book starts. Because this is (or was then) a rather unexplored joseki, at least by amateurs, almost every line throws up a position you have never seen before, which really makes you think. If you want to look at this joseki you'll find about 400 examples of the main line in the GoGoD database, the modern version starting with Kitani in 1926. It was played extensively in the Shin-Fuseki era of the 1930s and of course Sekiyama played it himself. But if you do study it, don't get bogged down in variations and forget to think in terms of gote no sente. I think it's worth pondering also why this particular joseki throws up so many good examples of gote no sente. Rather than novelty, I think it's the ootakamoku stone that sets the tone in a surprisingly strong way. I haven't got the answers, of course. I'm too weak. But I do believe I can claim to see that this is a fruitful area for high-dan self study, and that this book (or this joseki) gives you a nice platform. The copy I'm looking at cost just 1,000 yen, so it fits well within the budget. |
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| Author: | kusto [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
This thread reminds me of a a lovely little blog post Anders made: http://www.smartgo.com/blog/20121023.htm Quote: A Free iPad With Your Go Book Library 2012-10-23 SmartGo Books is now 48 books strong, and growing. Let’s say you’re building your Go book library as you improve, and see how the savings of SmartGo Books vs. paperback add up. Will it be enough to pay for that iPad you want? Start with introductory books. SmartGo Books provides several choices, including Jonathan Hop’s So You Want to Play Go? and Kiseido’s Go: A Complete Introduction to the Game, but let’s assume you go with Janice Kim’s acclaimed Learn to Play Go series: • Learn to Play Go vol. 1-5: $35 / $75 (first price is SmartGo Books, second price is the cheapest source for the paperback, in this case Amazon or the Go Game Guru value bundle) Some books to guide you on your way as a double-digit kyu player: • Graded Go Problems for Beginners vol. 1&2: $12 / $42 (Kiseido) • How Not to Play Go: $4 / $10 (Slate & Shell) • Single Digit Kyu Commentaries vol. 1&2: $11 / $26 (Slate & Shell) • Fundamental Principles of Go: $10 / $24 (Slate & Shell) • Basic Techniques of Go: $9 / $18 (Amazon) The Elementary Go Series is a must-read. Three of the books are available in SmartGo Books: • Tesuji: $10 / $18 (Kiseido) • Life and Death: $10 / $18 (Kiseido) • Attack and Defense: $10 / $18 (Kiseido) You’ll want to challenge yourself with problem collections: • Rescue and Capture: $3 / $11 (Yutopian) • Get Strong at Life and Death: $9 / $21 (Kiseido) • Get Strong at the Endgame: $10 / $21 (Kiseido) • Five Hundred and One Opening Problems: $9 / $25 (Kiseido) • Five Hundred and One Tesuji Problems: $10 / $25 (Kiseido) More to study as you reach single-digit kyu: • Patterns of the Sanrensei: $13 / $26 (Slate & Shell) • More Go by example: $7 / $9 (Amazon) • The Workshop Lectures vol. 1&2: $12 / $30 (Slate & Shell) • The Go Consultants: $8 / $18 (Slate & Shell) • Modern Master Games: The Dawn of Tournament Go: $12 / $35 (Kiseido) • This is Go the Natural Way! $8 / $20 (Yellow Mountain Imports) • Correct Joseki: $8 / $15 (Slate & Shell, published as All About Joseki) • Vital Points and Skillful Finesse for Sabaki: $8 / $20 (Go Game Guru) • The Way of Creating a Thick and Strong Game: $9 / $22 (Go Game Guru) No self-respecting Go player would be missing Invincible: • Invincible: The Games of Shusaku: $20 / $50 Valuable books as you approach dan level: • Catching Scent of Victory: $10 / $22 (Go Game Guru) • Breakthrough Attacking Power Yamashita-Style: $9 / $22 (Go Game Guru) • Shuko: The Only Move vol. 1&2: $20 / $46 (Go Game Guru) Our total so far: $296 for SmartGo Books. $687 for printed books. Those savings are enough to pay for a beautiful new iPad mini: $329. And that still leaves room to buy five out-of-print books that we’ve brought back to life: • Tesuji and Anti-Suji of Go: $10 • Killer of Go: $10 • Punishing and Correcting Joseki Mistakes: $9 • How to Destroy and Preserve: $4 • Sabaki – How to Manage Weak Stones: $4 Of course, you’ll also want SmartGo Kifu, with 40,000 pro games, 2,000 problems, and joseki matching: $20. Final tally: $687 for printed books. $682 for an iPad mini with all the books and software you need to become a strong player, plus a bonus of five out-of-print books that are hard to find at any price. You’ll learn more thanks to the interactive diagrams and problems, and you can carry your whole Go library with you. That was from last year. I think his list of books has increased a bit since then too allowing for more choice from a prospective buyer. You might be thinking that $180 is a fair bit over the Budget given in the opening. But if we instead were to scale it back to using $500 and deduct a now $299 ipad mini that would leave us with $201 to spend on content which is often less than half the price of what you would pay for paper books and with no delivery fees, which as we know aren't small. In addition to this the books are interactive and provide us with a better user experience aiding in our ability to learn in ways that feel much easier than from a traditional book. I will also add that the ipad mini can be used to play games and of course view games from recent and current matches which a book sadly wont allow. We can also view BadukTV later if our time and budget permits. Lastly we can even visit this forum  I love books, but i have to admit i have re-bought a few titles for the ipad just for the sheer convenience. It is something to think about. 
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
John Fairbairn wrote: I think he misses the motivational or inspirational element you can get from commentaries, essays or whatever. No:) |
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| Author: | Andurian [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
Tchan: Do you know of an english speaking (or english friendly - with mostly google translatable text rather than text in graphics) site where I can buy the chinese books you mentioned? I found listings on a couple of chinese sites that don't ship to the US for a couple of them that look like they'd be worthwhile purchases for someone who doesn't speak chinese. |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Creating the best USD500 go book library |
I'd probably try dangdang.com or amazon.cn but I haven't purchased much from them lately so I'm not sure of current policies or procedures at these sites. |
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