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 Post subject: Re: Useful books to become stronger
Post #21 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:24 am 
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GoCat wrote:
Gresil wrote:
If there's a book I've read that hasn't made me stronger, it's 501 Opening Problems.


Interesting. As I was reading this thread, I wondered about this book. I, for one, found it fairly useful. Could be because my openings suck. And, I can't say with any certainty that studying this book made me stronger. (My openings still suck.) But, it did give me lots of food for thought and helped me understand the opening.


The problem with that book is that it is too moyo-focused. I'd like to see a book like that which looks also at more territorial openings.

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Post #22 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:17 am 
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kirkmc wrote:
GoCat wrote:
Gresil wrote:
If there's a book I've read that hasn't made me stronger, it's 501 Opening Problems.


Interesting. As I was reading this thread, I wondered about this book. I, for one, found it fairly useful. Could be because my openings suck. And, I can't say with any certainty that studying this book made me stronger. (My openings still suck.) But, it did give me lots of food for thought and helped me understand the opening.


The problem with that book is that it is too moyo-focused. I'd like to see a book like that which looks also at more territorial openings.


It's not all about problems, but Yilun Yang's "The Workshop Lectures, Volume 2" talks about some distinguishing features between playing a moyo game and a territorial game. It's an interesting discussion. I think that his goal in making the distinction is to help people to play more consistent moves. In a different Volume 4, I think, he also discusses the aspects of a fighting game (and how you can play in the opening to produce one).

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 Post subject: Re: Useful books to become stronger
Post #23 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:53 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
It's not all about problems, but Yilun Yang's "The Workshop Lectures, Volume 2" talks about some distinguishing features between playing a moyo game and a territorial game. It's an interesting discussion. I think that his goal in making the distinction is to help people to play more consistent moves. In a different Volume 4, I think, he also discusses the aspects of a fighting game (and how you can play in the opening to produce one).


I'd second Kirby's recommendation for the Workshop Lectures. I read volumes 1-5 a few months back, and the sections about territorial, moyo, and fighting openings were very interesting. My favorite was the fighting opening, which requires real skill to carry out properly!

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Post #24 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Since the question about books is asked regularly, I have put a list of books on my SL homepage. The list is intended for beginners to low SDKs.

It also deals with Kage's lessons.

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Some go players do love the "Lessons" though. The only thing I could get out of it was to read out ladders carefully. It won me some games indeed, but I am not sure whether this is worth buying that book, because it doesn't give any concrete knowledge.

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Post #25 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:16 am 
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I expanded the list. Would be great if you could go over it once again and tell me what you think about the way I arranged it and if you approve with the blue coloured titles.

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 Post subject: Re: Useful books to become stronger
Post #26 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:46 am 
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A&D, 501TP and GGP vol. 4 are in the right bracket if you ask me.

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Post #27 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:53 am 
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karaklis wrote:
Since the question about books is asked regularly, I have put a list of books on my SL homepage. The list is intended for beginners to low SDKs.


I think you're too optimistic. Many of the books you have listed for DDKs are way too strong. I'm 5K KGS and much of 501 Tesuji Problems is over my head. The Opening problems are also way to complex for DDKs, especially the level you listed. Get Strong at Tesuji has some problems that a 15K could solve, but not that many. Even 38 Basic Joseki is, to be honest, an SDK book, not one for 10-12 K.

Interestingly, your book selection mirrors my library, because when I started buying books, many of them were the only such books available. I've not read the Janice Kim books, but I would think they're better for beginners and DDKs than many of the problem books listed.

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Post #28 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:00 am 
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kirkmc wrote:
karaklis wrote:
Since the question about books is asked regularly, I have put a list of books on my SL homepage. The list is intended for beginners to low SDKs.

I think you're too optimistic. Many of the books you have listed for DDKs are way too strong.

I agree; in my eyes most of the suggestions on that list are 5 to 10 ranks off, although I probably err on the side of suggesting easier books in general, because I think it's important to learn things that are just barely within reach now, rather than things that are way over your head.

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Post #29 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:23 am 
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Wow, I just cannot believe this book was omitted:

Modern Joseki and Fuseki by Sakata Eio...

In my opinion it is a must read for anyone under 1 dan level.

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Post #30 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:29 am 
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kirkmc wrote:
I'm 5K KGS and much of 501 Tesuji Problems is over my head.

I think, that strongly depends on how you deal with the books. If your goal is to improve your reading by trying to solve the problems, then I surely agree with you. As 8k I could solve less than half of the problems. If your goal is to learn the tesuji - and by that I mean that you know the branches of the solution so that you can solve the problem on sight - then this book is definitely useful for a 10-12k. A few months ago I watched a match between a 9k and a 10k (according to EGF, approximately 6k/8k KGS; both persons had been my opponent in that tournament), and this match was reviewed by a 1k (that was Oxident on GD, I hope he'll switch over to L19). He showed some excellent endgame moves that both players hadn't recognized. When I asked him what I should do to get aware of such moves, he advised me to study 501 TP. To hardwire these patterns is also an advice that Steve Fawthrop suggests. So if you cannot read out the problem completely on your own, but understand how the problems work in their detail so that you can hardwire them, the book would be appropriate for you. When I scanned the first 100 problems of 501 TP, there was only one problem that I couldn't grasp (a double ko was involved). That's why I deem this book appropriate for a 10-12k.

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Post #31 Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:57 am 
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Im another Kageyama fan, Id recommend that book to any mid-kyu player.

The books that gave me most at single digit kyu level (maybe in your 10-5k category but if you get a real grasp on them youre probably almost 1d):

General concept books:
Kageyama
Attack and Defense

Technique books:
Tesuji
Life&Death

"Endgame" and "Opening" werent things I learned from books, although Kageyama covers basic endgame concepts well.

For dan level players, the dictionary series is quite good (Ishida joseki, Rin Kaiho Fuseki, Fujisawa or (AND!) Go Seigen Tesuji, Cho Chikun Life and Death)

What Im currently lacking is books about new openings and joseki, the materials from Rin Kaiho and Ishida are often more than 30 years old... for example, in recent Korean games, ive seen several variations of the starpoint two space high pincer which definitely arent in the Ishida but seem to be quite common nowadays. (BC Card Cup final game 1 move 6-15)

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Post #32 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:18 am 
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I really like this topic.

My two cents:

The more I think about it the more I believe that:
* The Elementary Go Serie (in the following sequence : Tesuji, Life & Death, Attack & Defense... and then maybe In the Beginning, 38 Joseki, The Endgame)
* Graded Go Problems for Beginners 1 to 4
have almost all you need to learn for a long time

That being said, the Elementary Go Serie is something that I'm studying right now... I'm not sure you need to get into those within your first year of Go.

Easy books to start with:
* Janice Kim's Learn to Play Go is a must : it's really an excellent kicker because it's not overwhelming: graphs are simple to read, no need for a goban aside from the book. Very nice.
* Opening Theory Made Easy : the easiest way I've found to get into good fuseki principles
* 1001 Life & Death problems is also very good and simple to review (maybe at the same time as the Elementary Go Serie)

I've got far more books (mostly unread) but my main goal for this year is to read all 6 books of the Elementary Go Serie.
I'm sure I could read them and read them again and still get something out of them for quite some time.
Aside from those, easy books on tsumegos are really what I'm aiming at: just improve my ability to read and reckognize patterns (easier said than done).

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Post #33 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:40 am 
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Actorios wrote:
I really like this topic.

My two cents:

The more I think about it the more I believe that:
* The Elementary Go Series (in the following sequence : Tesuji, Life & Death, Attack & Defense... and then maybe In the Beginning, 38 Joseki, The Endgame)
* Graded Go Problems for Beginners 1 to 4
have almost all you need to learn for a long time

I agree. I got to 10k super fast (probably under 20 games) just by reading through most of the Elementary Go Series and GGPB 2, again and again.

However, I would not read Life & Death that early. In fact, I think one of the main things retarding my development for a long time was the fact that I wasn't good at life & death, the book wasn't helping me, and I thought that the fault lay with me so I didn't bother getting a different book. Life & Death has a lot of really advanced stuff in it, and despite appearances (it starts with simple situations) it is not a gentle introduction at all. It wasn't until I started browsing through Cho's All About Life and Death and doing lots of L&D problems in GGPB 3 and 4 (and later the 1001 book) that I got any good at life and death.

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Post #34 Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:08 am 
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karaklis wrote:
Since the question about books is asked regularly, I have put a list of books on my SL homepage. The list is intended for beginners to low SDKs.


I'm surprised at your placement of "Kage's Secret Chronicles Of Handicap Go." As a single digit kyu player, I found the book helped me tremendously (possibly more than any other book at this level.) I must add, however, that I studied the book, and memorized the first 70 or so moves of every game. (Easy, because he clearly explains the reason behind every move, so the logic is easy to follow.)

Jumped three stones from a single read.

I would place it in the single digit kyu upwards category.

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Post #35 Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:31 pm 
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I have never read any go books that created any huge leap in rank. And I think the book that helped me the most was actually a tsumego book. Weiqi Rapid Drill 800 Problems (围棋快速练习800题). The thing that made this book great was that it was the first tsumego book I have read that seemed to perfectly match my skill level (I was a KGS 8kyu at the time, though I'm not sure if my tsumego skills had been lagging behind at that point or not).

I averaged 5 out of 6 problems correct, many of which were very quick, around 5-10 second problems. Not having any description of the problem, just knowing that it was black to play, was also useful. Especially not having any hint whether you're aiming to unconditionally live/kill, or if seki, or ko, is the best result. I'm sure a lot of books are like that, of course, but that combined with the quick nature of the problems made this book very useful for me.

Of course, it's hard to recommend a specific tsumego book to a group of people... but this was the book that convinced me of how useful finding a tsumego book at just the right difficulty can be.

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Post #36 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:27 am 
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Saurus wrote:
I'm surprised at your placement of "Kage's Secret Chronicles Of Handicap Go." As a single digit kyu player, I found the book helped me tremendously (possibly more than any other book at this level.) I must add, however, that I studied the book, and memorized the first 70 or so moves of every game. (Easy, because he clearly explains the reason behind every move, so the logic is easy to follow.)

Interesting to know. I will give it a try again with your study method.

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Post #37 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:39 am 
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I really like The Direction Of Play. I think it crystallised a lot of things which I was unsure of. Also, if you have a good sense of direction fuseki and attack/defense suddenly start to make a lot more sense.

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Post #38 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:51 am 
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I've heard that "Direction of Play" is specifically aimed at dan players. How did you find the level? In your opinion, at what kyu level would it become useful?

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Post #39 Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:58 am 
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I think I got it at about 5k. I found it really clear and easy to understand, especially the fuseki bits. I know a lot of people don't like it, but I think the "move 2 lost the game" section is a beautiful bit of pedagogy. :D The section on midgame direction is tougher to put into practice, but still good to have in the back of your mind, especially while reviewing your own games.

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Post #40 Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:58 am 
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I can recommend the book "Vital Points And Skillful Finesse For Sabaki" (http://senseis.xmp.net/?VitalPointsAndS ... eForSabaki) for players around 3k - 3d. Sadly the binding of the book has no good quality but the covered topics are really great. The moves that Yoda Norimoto is showing are feeling like magic to me.
Definitly a "should-read" for all people who like to invade deep and die struggling (like me ;-) )

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