I was calibrating weak levels for the commercial release. I did not expect it would reach 7d. Next week I'll connect Crazy Stone on a powerful server. I believe there is a chance that it may reach 8d. We'll see.

On KGS? I'll stay awake for the whole week!!!

I've got a desktop running an i7 4790k at 4 GHz, and a laptop running an i7 6700HQ. Looking forward to how well they do.

The desktop is also equipped with a GTX 980Ti, while the laptop has got a 960M, both with current CUDA installations. Wouldn't mind seeing a GPU-implementation of CS' DCNN at some point.

Three quick questions @Remi:

1. Do you get significant improvement from your neural networks in 13x13 and 9x9? If so, is it correct to assume that the training of the small board variants was completely separate from the training of the standard size net?

2. Will the play of the weak pure DCNN levels adjust to komi?

3. Does CSDL have an analogue to the AlphaGo value network or just to the policy network at the moment?

I will wait and see how strong CS will be on weaker machines. I have a laptop with duo core, 2,4 GHz and 4GB RAM and I am 2d-3d strong, so I have some doubt if CS can be at least one full stone stronger than me (I want to use it for analysis and as a teacher).

You can set fixed time limits per move or per game IIRC for whole game analysis. So, if you don't need that 7-8d strength live while playing, your configuration should be more than enough to be able to analyze games at that level when you give CS 2-3h of time.

Here comes Rémi's kind answer to a similar question of mine, related to "Analyse Current Game" = analyse the current position = show the next move's candidates.
This feature (for a single move) is not the same as "Analyse Game Record ..." (for every move contained in a SGF's main line), which is mentioned in the posting above, but I think that Rémi's core message will apply to that as well.

"The analysis will be of the same quality for the same number of playouts, whatever the hardware. Of course, the same number of playouts will be faster on a more powerful machine."

So you will be able to get a high-level analysis done be CS, if time is no limiting factor for you.

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)

Thx for the info. If Remi can confirm that it'd be a huge argument to buy CS.

You can check out this thread where Remi seemed to have confirmed it, but you may want another confirmation since this is another Crazy Stone version, and I am not sure if there is a timed mode for the new version:
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 1&start=40

CS 2012 has it, CS 2013 has it. CS 2016 screenshots look like the same.
Analysis features are explicitely mentioned in the Unbalance announcement.

Why should they make a step back ?

In my opinion, you will use the "Analyse Game Record ..." feature to identify the "hot spots" of a game seen by CS (e.g. where CS's favourite move has a much better winning percentage than the really played one).
CS 2012 has about 30.000 playouts per move with the setting "depth = high". (Lasted about 20 to 30 minutes in total on my low-level laptop).
I did not try the "Total time" option myself, but the maximum time that can be chosen is 8 hours !

"Analyse Current Game" would be used to get an idea of the moves CS has thought about (additionally maybe the histogram) in a special position, and to try out variations.
This analysis for one special move will last until you stop it (e.g. by going to the next move played).

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)

Crazystone continues to be a really impressive bot. I just bought my copy last night and I was up to wee hours analyzing some games, watching it play itself, and relaying a game for a KGS buddy.

I wish I could set it up for kgsgtp.

I have to say that I still really like it's style, it reminds me a lot of old go games from China (1300s-1700s). (I could probably ramble on about this subject for some time.) While it seems to value influence much more than they did, it has a very similar sense of trying to discoordinate opponent stones. (I could probably ramble on this subject for some time as well.) I had SGFs of two old games transcribed from "The Celestial Arsenal" and gave CS a chance to analyze them. It seems CS appreciated the style a lot, but I am not sure I understand the abstract number given by analysis mode for how much CS likes its own suggested move relative to the move made.

Analysis is a little clunky if you want to play out a tree, but since you can just turn CS on with no time limit you can see what it's thinking anyway by playing against it, or having it play itself for a few moves.

It's how much it thinks the probability of winning the game would have gone up if the suggested move had been played rather than the actual move. Unfortunately,

• It's given to 6 digits, which is hard to read, has much more precision than is actually relevant, and implies much more precision than actually exists.
• It's given as a raw number, rather than a percentage, which means every number starts with a "0.0" you have to mentally strip off.

As an example, if the Delta it gives is 0.023193, this means that it thinks that the player's chance of winning would have been 2.3% higher if he had played the suggested move instead.

(I think that the "probability of winning" is really what fraction of playouts were wins, but that's kind of a detail. It would mean that all the probabilities are closer to 50% than you'd expect.)

That's what I thought, thanks!

If I buy CS and install it and then archive it on DVD, can I use the DVd copy to reinstall it on another computer or if my original gets deleted? I don't wanna spend $80 for a one-and-done-copy. If possible do I have to be connected to the Internet for the second install again?

Hmm, there was some talk of a Steam version of CrazyStone, which I think would let you use it on any machine by logging into your Steam account. I wonder if that's happening though.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... /389714638

If we measure playout speed in analysis mode, would there be a way to look up po/s versus approximate dan rating at each setting? Do you have a table like that?

Those are the sorts of questions that a vendor of software SHOULD make clear. Whether the license is for one INSTALL, for use on ONE MACHINE (ever) regardless of how many times needs to be reinstalled, or for ONE MACHINE (at a time), meaning you can move it to a new machine when your old one is being replaced, or even a "site license" meaning can be on more than one of YOUR machines << at least of the go programs being sold is on that basis >>

Note that while you are referring to the cost of this software, the "free software" movement did not originally envision free as in free beer downloads but fairer license terms and low cost*, essentially comparable to a book (but note since academics, probably thinking in terms of a college textbook, not a paperback romance novel).

IMHO --- $80 would be steep for "single install" but quite reasonable for "use on one machine" (at a time) and a steal if "site license".

* Remember, this was in the days before much broadband internet and not just a few dominant OS's in use. Which is why in theory can be charged for the FREE software (source code --- mailed to you on standard medium for the accepted fee for that sort of service) and anybody could compile and link executables for running under whatever OS charging whatever they wanted for doing that for you with the idea being that if they were too greedy somebody would step up and offer that service for less.

@Mike: I agree, but Unbalance is silence about all that. You basically buy the cat in the bag. It's only written that your computer has to have internet access for the first install. I'll wait a bit anyway to see what users say about it, so we'll see. Maybe soon other programs of that kind will flood the market (Zen? DolBaram?...)

I bought the 2013 version in January 2015. Later that year I sold my PC and bought a new one. I just installed the program, put in the serial number on the first startup just like before and then it just worked, no problems at all.

Zen announced a June release.