Life In 19x19
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Crazy Stone 2013
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10379		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  PeterPeter [ Fri May 30, 2014 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Crazy Stone 2013
I am looking at buying Crazy Stone 2013, mainly for its game analysis functions rather than its playing strength, which is far stronger than I need. But most information about the program on the web is about how strong its engine is. It is quite hard to find information about other aspects of the program. There are no YouTube reviews that I can find, most screenshots on the web are of the main playing screen, and there is no free 30-day trial that I can try. Could anyone post some screenshots showing different parts of the program?
Author:  eyecatcher [ Fri May 30, 2014 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crazy Stone 2013
PeterPeter wrote:
I am looking at buying Crazy Stone 2013, mainly for its game analysis functions rather than its playing strength, which is far stronger than I need. But most information about the program on the web is about how strong its engine is. It is quite hard to find information about other aspects of the program. There are no YouTube reviews that I can find, most screenshots on the web are of the main playing screen, and there is no free 30-day trial that I can try. Could anyone post some screenshots showing different parts of the program?

Hi, i would be suprised if Crazy Stone could analyse a position that you give it... is this really possible?
i know in smartgo there is a option of searching for techniques like capture etc. but i thought Crazy stone just plays go nothing else...
(i have the Ipad version, it 100% only plays) :scratch:
Author:  PeterPeter [ Fri May 30, 2014 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crazy Stone 2013
On its website, it says "Analysis Mode (Move list, Histogram, Record analysis)", and it shows 3 small windows, but that's about it. More detail would be welcome, as that is the main thing I am after for the $80 cost.
Author:  CnP [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crazy Stone 2013
There is indeed a game analysis mode in CS2013 (I've bought a copy of CS2013) it seems to work well enough and you can either use it to analyse a game you just played against the computer or another sgf file. Its a bit late in the day for me to start doing screenshots, but hopefully this information from the manual will be sufficient.

From the HTML help file of CS2013:

Analyze Mode

We have provided an Analyze Mode in Crazy Stone 2013, and you can open three analyze windows from the "Analyze" menu.
Below are the explanations of the three features: record analysis list, move list, and histogram.

Record Analysis List
Crazy Stone will analyze the current game and show the result in this list. The deeper you let Crazy Stone to analyze, the results will be more accurate, but note that it will take more time.
(The analysis results will be shown from the fourth move of the game.)

Move: The point where the stone was placed.

Time: The time to take the move.

Playout: The amount of playout searched by Crazy Stone. The bigger this value is, the deeper the analysis will be.

P(B wins): The winrate from the black's point of view of the current situation

Situation: The situation of the board calculated in points.
(This result of the situation calculating will not be the same as expected territory counting.)
Dispersion: The dispersion indicates the possibility of the situation to change when played on from this move. It is calculated from the score histogram
If this number is bigger, the possibility will be higher, which means that there is still a chance to change the score.
CS Best: The best move selected by Crazy Stone.

Delta: The winrate difference between CS best move and the move actually played. The moves with a big values for Delta means that Crazy Stone thinks that the move actually played was not a good one.


Move List: The move analysis list will be shown in this window. It is an extension of the hint feature.

Histogram: The score histogram of the current position will be shown in this window.


Analyze Game Record
You will be able to analyze game records saved in sgf files from this menu.
Please select the total time to analyze or the analyze depth from three levels and choose the game record file.
Author:  CnP [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crazy Stone 2013
Given CS's strength I think it is a pretty interesting tool.
Author:  Uberdude [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crazy Stone 2013
When Remi was developing the analysis tool he kindly analyzed some of our games and posted the results online. See viewtopic.php?p=88996#p88996. Here is one of my OGS games analyzed: http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/~coulo ... index.html. It provided valuable insights even at my mid-dan level.

I don't know how similar this is to the retail version, but it should provide a flavour at least.
Author:  ez4u [ Fri May 30, 2014 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crazy Stone 2013
Remi's web page seems a little nicer than the commercial version. Here is what is achievable with CS 2013 at the moment (i.e. there could be more capabilities that I haven't found yet).
Sorry the screen shot is quite large for clarity...

What we see is the main window showing the board after move 11 in the recent game between Yoda and Crazy Stone. 'Analyze Current Game' is turned on and also from the Analyze menu 'Histogram', 'Move List', and 'Record Analysis List' have been selected and then dragged to the left of the screen.

The histogram shows that the distribution of results is pretty much a normal curve. There are cases where this can be very different, so the histogram is not just a pretty picture.

The record analysis list shows us that it has run some 529,000 playouts and assesses the probability of a Black win at 70.7%, an expected winning margin of 34.5 points, and a 'dispersion' (I assume this is more or less the standard deviation of the score, but haven't actually checked the documentation) of +/- 16 points. CS' own calculations showed that K16 rather than R12 was the 'CS best' choice.

The move list shows the current results from the playouts for Black's next play. Right now R9, pincering on the right side, is looking best (i.e. showing the highest probability of a Black win at 70.84%) and K16 at the top is second (B win probability 70.8%). CS indeed chose R9 for move 12.
Attachment:
Yoda-CS move 11.jpg
Yoda-CS move 11.jpg [ 676.59 KiB | Viewed 6465 times ]

You have the option to print the Record Analysis List but not the move list or the histogram. Obviously you can resort to screen shots like me for the latter.
Author:  PeterPeter [ Sat May 31, 2014 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crazy Stone 2013
ez4u wrote:
You have the option to print the Record Analysis List but not the move list or the histogram. Obviously you can resort to screen shots like me for the latter.

Interesting. Can you export the Record Analysis List as a text or CSV file? It would be nice to see it as a graph in Excel.
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