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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #21 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:37 am 
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Pippen wrote:
wauske wrote:
Do note that this requires an NVIDIA Cuda capable GPU.


When I want to start I always get "cuda error". Anything one can do?


I think this link has a non-gpu version which is KGS 4d: http://www.vector.co.jp/soft/winnt/game/se512260.html

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #22 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:10 am 
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headless wrote:
level = arg:-po *000

If the comments on "HiratukaDlg.cpp" is right, level 1 means about 4k and level 15 means about 1d with this settings.

Hmm, the source.zip file is password protected, I wonder what valid arguments for -po are...


Last edited by Sneegurd on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #23 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:16 pm 
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mikanbae wrote:
I attached English Translation Patch that I made.
Place English_Patch_For_Hiratuka10_34D-No11.exe in the same directory as Hiratuka.exe and run the patch.


I tried, but if I run your patch then some window pops up with japanese letter and 'yes' or 'no' and if I click 'yes' there's some error message in jap. again. It's basically impossible to use this Bot in japanese version for one has no clue what means what.

Also I realized there's a folder "src" that is password-protected. What is that about?

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #24 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:59 pm 
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It's a zip file with source code.
Pippen, you can use it as a GTP engine in Drago or Sabaki or whatever GUI.

Section you need to add to Dragos engine.config:

Code:
[Hiratuka No Igo]
url = http://www.vector.co.jp/download/file/winnt/game/fh665594.html
connection = not.required
level = arg:-po *000
boardsize = not.required
chinese.rules = not.required
japanese.rules = not.handled
time.per.move = not.handled
total.time = not.handled
overtime = not.handled

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #25 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Thx, but I'd like to play Hiraku with its interface. I don't have drago, just multigo.

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #26 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:34 pm 
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On Drago, Hiratuka's level can be adjusted from 1 to 10.

Does anyone know if the same is possible on GoGui? Or does anyone know what the default level is when it plays on GoGui?

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #27 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:24 pm 
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@Pippen, but you can use whatever GTP capable UI. Everything else is probably hopeless. I mean the UI is crappy and we have no or just an outdated translation.

@Dunkn, Problem is, I have no info on arguments and the source code zip file is protected.
The Drago template which someone posted early this thread indicates, it has a command line like this:

-po <number>
Whatever that is...

And he has linked it to the level... Level 1 = "-po 1000", level 12="-po 12000"...
So you can add "-po 10000" as an argument, but I have no information on what it in fact does.

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #28 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:12 am 
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Sneegurd wrote:
@Pippen, but you can use whatever GTP capable UI. Everything else is probably hopeless. I mean the UI is crappy and we have no or just an outdated translation.

@Dunkn, Problem is, I have no info on arguments and the source code zip file is protected.
The Drago template which someone posted early this thread indicates, it has a command line like this:

-po <number>
Whatever that is...

And he has linked it to the level... Level 1 = "-po 1000", level 12="-po 12000"...
So you can add "-po 10000" as an argument, but I have no information on what it in fact does.


That's going to be the number of Monte Carlo play-outs. The more, the better -- with diminishing returns.

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #29 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:25 am 
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Ok, so what would u recommend? Drago? Do I have just have to make sure hiraktu.exe gets into the command line or do I have to set certain parameters?

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #30 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:45 am 
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Pandazilla wrote:


That's going to be the number of Monte Carlo play-outs. The more, the better -- with diminishing returns.


And there is more to it than that. SOME of the MCTS programs try to set the strength at which they are playing this way, and it does make the level of play independent of the hardware. But at a steep price, losing the ability to play within some time control setting. In other words, you might be able to get the program to play at its maximum strength even on very weak hardware BUT it would be taking a long time for each move.

On the other hand, SOME of the MCTS programs have "time management". You give them a strength level to shoot for and a time control setting (say an hour for first 100 moves, then 10 sec/move) and when coming up the program analyzes the hardware upon which it finds itself running to decide how many playpouts it can use << it might no be able to reach the target strength on weak hardware >>

THAT is why I would like us to be learning more about the new "Julie" neural net program that has appeared on the scene. NOT because it is particularly strong but because it can play at THAT level extremely fast on modest hardware. Which means it could play at that strength at quite reasonable playing speed on VERY weak hardware.

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #31 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:53 am 
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Pippen wrote:
Ok, so what would u recommend? Drago? Do I have just have to make sure hiraktu.exe gets into the command line or do I have to set certain parameters?


tested with Qt Go Board against Pachi 11, command used:

D:\Programs\board.exe -black "D:\Programs\Hiratuka10_36I\Hiratuka-13x13.exe" "-po 10000" -white "D:\Programs\Pachi 11\pachi.exe" "-f book.dat -t =100000 threads=1,pondering=0" -size 13 -komi 6.5

Hiratuka wins and plays much faster than pachi, but I think
Hiratuka is weaker than Zen 4, so I would rather play with Zen!

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #32 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:57 am 
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Mike Novack wrote:
Pandazilla wrote:
THAT is why I would like us to be learning more about the new "Julie" neural net program that has appeared on the scene. NOT because it is particularly strong but because it can play at THAT level extremely fast on modest hardware. Which means it could play at that strength at quite reasonable playing speed on VERY weak hardware.


It's the first i've heard about this Julie-program. Any info on where it showed up (KGS, Tygem, forums)?
Also, the neural net posted a few topics down also works very quickly in a browser on modest hardware (the downloadable neural net one). I can even run it on a 2 year old Moto X 2014 (still reasonably high-spec android phone) without any problems though the touchscreen is a bit iffy on the small size ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #33 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:59 am 
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Hane, where from is board.exe? I am interested in letting engines auto play :)

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #34 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:13 am 
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QT Board looks like this one: https://github.com/Mezoka/Board

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #35 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:01 am 
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Ah yes, I have overlooked he mentioned QT board. Thx!

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #36 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:56 am 
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wauske wrote:

It's the first i've heard about this Julie-program. Any info on where it showed up (KGS, Tygem, forums)?)


Well I'm trying to follow the computer go tournaments.

It first appeared at the 9th UEC Cup (3/19-20) and played in the KGS Spring Slow Tournament (3/27-30).
The latter tends to list what hardware is being used by each contestant and special mention about the surprisingly little amount of time it was using (order of a second per move).

Not always easy for non-computer folks to always remember, but speed and time trade off. If it could run on the hardware it was on at a second a move then it could play at 10 sec per move on hardware just a tenth as powerful. Which would have it down to modest tablets and powerful phones, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #37 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:19 am 
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At 1 kyu rating is free or i must pay after a trial period? Sorry for my english...

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #38 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:47 pm 
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Hane wrote:
Pippen wrote:
Ok, so what would u recommend? Drago? Do I have just have to make sure hiraktu.exe gets into the command line or do I have to set certain parameters?


tested with Qt Go Board against Pachi 11, command used:

D:\Programs\board.exe -black "D:\Programs\Hiratuka10_36I\Hiratuka-13x13.exe" "-po 10000" -white "D:\Programs\Pachi 11\pachi.exe" "-f book.dat -t =100000 threads=1,pondering=0" -size 13 -komi 6.5

Hiratuka wins and plays much faster than pachi, but I think
Hiratuka is weaker than Zen 4, so I would rather play with Zen!


You have Hiratuka playing using 13x13 strategy. Is this on a 19x19 board?

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #39 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:06 pm 
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mazetas wrote:
At 1 kyu rating is free or i must pay after a trial period? Sorry for my english...


And I can't read Japanese. What is the condition of the trial version?

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 Post subject: Re: Hiratuka No Igo
Post #40 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:17 pm 
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dunknballer21 wrote:
You have Hiratuka playing using 13x13 strategy. Is this on a 19x19 board?

No, see the command line, he had it play with "-size 13".

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