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| Using a computer to record a tournament game http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1295 |
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| Author: | keithlard [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Using a computer to record a tournament game |
Are you allowed to record a tournament game on a computer or phone? I would tend to use SmartGo Pro on the iPhone to record a game I was playing over the board, but I can see where this wouldn't be allowed. The AGA rules are not quite clear, because they say (section VI.A.5): "a. A player shall not use, consult, or bring to the playing surface any prepared game materials, move dictionaries, problem collections, etc., during the current round. b. A player may not use a second set to "mirror" any part of the tournament game or to work out any positional variations arising from it." Now SmartGo contains problem collections and obviously has lots of stored games and SGFs which could potentially include dictionaries. Also, when you record a game on SmartGo, you are clearly "mirroring" the tournament game even if you do not use it to work out variations. The rules then say: "d. A player may not use a computer to contravene either a. or b. of this section. A player using a computer to record a game must be willing and able to satisfy his/her opponent and the TD at any time that he/she is not so contravening this stricture." I would be happy to show my opponent and the TD that I'm using the program only to record the game. But in having the program, I'm contravening section (a), and in recording the game, I would contravene section (b). So do people routinely use phones or laptops to record their games using some kind of Go program (as opposed to, say, a text editor, or something like CGoban that doesn't actually play the game but just displays and edits games in SGF)? And if so, are there restrictions on what software you can use? |
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| Author: | freegame [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
At tournaments I visited there are always a couple of people recording games on PDA and some on Kifu paper (did never see laptops during the game) I have never seen any problems with it. According to my interpretation of the rules you quoted, you can use a PDA or similar device, but when you look at a joseki dictionary instead of recording the game, you can get caught and kicked out of the tournament. If you don't use it to "cheat" there is no. In my opinion It is better to make a game record after the game. If you can not recall the game, recording it during the game is still not a good option because it will distract you from the game. |
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| Author: | mdobbins [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
To follow the rule is the strictest sense, you should: 1) record the move only after playing it on the tournament board. 2) analyze your next move by only looking at the tournament board not your record. This satisfies the intent of rule B 3) not using or seeing anything on your device which could possibly give you extra information which could help you in your game. A couple of things come to mind like other game records, joseki dictionaries, a smart recorder which could put marks on the recording screen to indicate any value of any move or area. This satisfies the intent of rule A The intent of these rules is to play the game only with the board and stones from the tournament and the power of you mind with no outside influence or help. It is hard to strictly enforce 1 and 2 as people aren't always that disciplined and will occasionally glance at the recording or mark the move on the recorder before making on the board. Where you can get in trouble is to make the move on the record and then think about it for any length of time or change it before you play on the board. That falls under trying variation on a mirrored board. It is also easy to make a case against someone doing 3. I remember bringing a large laptop and an extension cord to record my games almost 20 years ago. I was so happy when I got my first Palm to record them. |
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| Author: | psk31 [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
I will say that in the U.S. Open matches at Congress so far I've seen people using SmartGo Kifu on their iPads recording their games and others using iPod touches and a couple trying to use laptops but the lack of space makes that difficult. But most are still on paper. To my knowledge no one has been questioned on using the electronic devices. I should add, this is in the main room. I have no idea what is happening down in the strong player room. |
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| Author: | Mcgreag [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
At the EGC people have been using both paper, phones and laptops. I use an android phone myself. But at the WMSG in china 2 years ago no electronic devices at all where allowed in the playing area. It was not overly enforced (no searches) but you where definitively not allowed to record you game on one. Not sure about paper kifu, never saw one used there. |
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| Author: | topazg [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
I must admit, I wouldn't complain if people used any forms of reference material in any of my tournament games. The only thing I would object to is people using computer engines to find their moves for them, but reference material is fine in my book. Score estimating software I'd also consider fine. Certainly recording the game I cannot see any objection to. |
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| Author: | Li Kao [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
psk31 wrote: I have no idea what is happening down in the strong player room. I'd guess stronger players wouldn't want to record while playing anyways. They should remember most moves and recording costs valuable reading time and doesn't help concentration either. |
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| Author: | topazg [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
Li Kao wrote: I'd guess stronger players wouldn't want to record while playing anyways. They should remember most moves and recording costs valuable reading time and doesn't help concentration either. I've found this to be the case. I normally remember my games at the end, and have found recording midgame far too concentration breaking. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
psk31 wrote: ... I have no idea what is happening down in the strong player room. They have volunteers recording the top games. Every top game has a 6-ft long table allocated to it, with three chairs - one for each player and one for a recording person with a laptop. BTW, some people consider volunteering for these positions to be highly desirable. It makes no sense to me, but some like it.. 
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| Author: | Chew Terr [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
Helel wrote: IMAO every player should be forced to record the game with algebraic notation. The records should be checked by the judges and if any errors appear the player should be disqualified.  "...and shot? Or is that only in the strong players room? =D" |
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| Author: | xed_over [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
psk31 wrote: I should add, this is in the main room. I have no idea what is happening down in the strong player room. a photo from the strong players room yesterday. the ones with laptops there are game recorders who are relaying the game on KGS... http://i38.tinypic.com/9j2jd5.jpg |
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| Author: | Harleqin [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Using a computer to record a tournament game |
Is that a bird on the recorder's shoulder? |
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