Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Leela Zero
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15530		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Gomoto [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Leela Zero
Leela Zero is so strong now. :bow: I am in awe of the network and its moves. We have not started to appreciate it yet accordingly.

Thanks to Google and Deepmind. Thanks to Gian-Carlo Pascutto. Thanks to the community supporting the developing of Leela Zero. :clap: :clap: :clap:

It is such a great learning tool. It feels like having Go Seigen for a teacher. In fact it feels like having an individual Go Seigen available to every go player. I feel so blessed to be able to witness this stepping stone for the development of the game of go.

I reviewed my own games and pro games with Leela Zero since a few days. Today I started reviewing AlphaGo games with Leela Zero. This was an eye opener to me how strong the Leela network has gotten already. You can feel its strength watching its moves. It is sharp like a knife, calm like the ocean and strong like the strongest of the four fundamental interactions :lol:
Author:  sorin [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Gomoto wrote:
Leela Zero is so strong now. :bow: I am in awe of the network and its moves. We have not started to appreciate it yet accordingly.

Thanks to Google and Deepmind. Thanks to Gian-Carlo Pascutto. Thanks to the community supporting the developing of Leela Zero. :clap: :clap: :clap:

It is such a great learning tool. It feels like having Go Seigen for a teacher. In fact it feels like having an individual Go Seigen available to every go player. I feel so blessed to be able to witness this stepping stone for the development of the game of go.

I reviewed my own games and pro games with Leela Zero since a few days. Today I started reviewing AlphaGo games with Leela Zero. This was an eye opener to me how strong the Leela network has gotten already. You can feel its strength watching its moves. It is sharp like a knife, calm like the ocean and strong like the strongest of the four fundamental interactions :lol:


Indeed it is amazing - in my own tests, it is 2 stones stronger than Leela 11 and 1 stone stronger than AQ...

Unfortunately it is also dumb as a doorknob in some peculiar situations, such as this one (see last 2 moves): http://zero.sjeng.org/viewmatch/0b385a7 ... viewer=wgo

It just doesn't see it is in atari, I guess because of the weak white stones that are in contact with it?
This happens also with the latest version, I just checked (the version that played in the linked game is a little older I think).
Author:  hydrogenpi7 [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
sorin wrote:
Gomoto wrote:
Leela Zero is so strong now. :bow: I am in awe of the network and its moves. We have not started to appreciate it yet accordingly.

Thanks to Google and Deepmind. Thanks to Gian-Carlo Pascutto. Thanks to the community supporting the developing of Leela Zero. :clap: :clap: :clap:

It is such a great learning tool. It feels like having Go Seigen for a teacher. In fact it feels like having an individual Go Seigen available to every go player. I feel so blessed to be able to witness this stepping stone for the development of the game of go.

I reviewed my own games and pro games with Leela Zero since a few days. Today I started reviewing AlphaGo games with Leela Zero. This was an eye opener to me how strong the Leela network has gotten already. You can feel its strength watching its moves. It is sharp like a knife, calm like the ocean and strong like the strongest of the four fundamental interactions :lol:


Indeed it is amazing - in my own tests, it is 2 stones stronger than Leela 11 and 1 stone stronger than AQ...

Unfortunately it is also dumb as a doorknob in some peculiar situations, such as this one (see last 2 moves): http://zero.sjeng.org/viewmatch/0b385a7 ... viewer=wgo

It just doesn't see it is in atari, I guess because of the weak white stones that are in contact with it?
This happens also with the latest version, I just checked (the version that played in the linked game is a little older I think).


Your link is to a self playing game right? is that not very low playouts? at high playouts LZ is already top level pro:

see

https://www.reddit.com/r/cbaduk/comment ... _per_move/
Author:  Sneegurd [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Yeah, we're now at or close to a level where consumer hardware/software will win against any pro. Had to happen and the awesome part is that it happened quicker than anticipated.
Author:  sorin [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
hydrogenpi7 wrote:
sorin wrote:
Gomoto wrote:
Leela Zero is so strong now. :bow: I am in awe of the network and its moves. We have not started to appreciate it yet accordingly.

Thanks to Google and Deepmind. Thanks to Gian-Carlo Pascutto. Thanks to the community supporting the developing of Leela Zero. :clap: :clap: :clap:

It is such a great learning tool. It feels like having Go Seigen for a teacher. In fact it feels like having an individual Go Seigen available to every go player. I feel so blessed to be able to witness this stepping stone for the development of the game of go.

I reviewed my own games and pro games with Leela Zero since a few days. Today I started reviewing AlphaGo games with Leela Zero. This was an eye opener to me how strong the Leela network has gotten already. You can feel its strength watching its moves. It is sharp like a knife, calm like the ocean and strong like the strongest of the four fundamental interactions :lol:


Indeed it is amazing - in my own tests, it is 2 stones stronger than Leela 11 and 1 stone stronger than AQ...

Unfortunately it is also dumb as a doorknob in some peculiar situations, such as this one (see last 2 moves): http://zero.sjeng.org/viewmatch/0b385a7 ... viewer=wgo

It just doesn't see it is in atari, I guess because of the weak white stones that are in contact with it?
This happens also with the latest version, I just checked (the version that played in the linked game is a little older I think).


Your link is to a self playing game right? is that not very low playouts? at high playouts LZ is already top level pro:

see

https://www.reddit.com/r/cbaduk/comment ... _per_move/


I agree it has reached pro level, but it still has these weird blind spots.
This example indeed comes from an older version and with few playouts (1600 or so).
I tried the same position with the current version (1ccb7342) and 24000 playouts, and its preferred move is to play double-atari on the outside, it just doesn't seem to "realize" that it gets captured in one move if it does that.
Author:  Tryss [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Or maybe it realise it, but the other options are as bad as this.

What winrate does it expect before these moves, and what sequence does it consider?
Author:  sorin [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Tryss wrote:
Or maybe it realise it, but the other options are as bad as this.

What winrate does it expect before these moves, and what sequence does it consider?


Its winrate for black is in low 40s at lower playouts - so it is definitely not in "desperate mode".
The rate drops a lot (high 20s) if ran with more playouts.

I expected it to at least consider the capturing for white in some variations, but it seems to only do so when ran with many playouts.
I re-ran with about 100K playouts, it finally defended against capturing as first choice now.

The way I interpret this is that the capturing move is not considered a "natural move" in this position, but rather seems to only be discovered during MCTS.
Author:  moha [ Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
sorin wrote:
Unfortunately it is also dumb as a doorknob in some peculiar situations, such as this one (see last 2 moves): http://zero.sjeng.org/viewmatch/0b385a7 ... viewer=wgo
It just doesn't see it is in atari, I guess because of the weak white stones that are in contact with it?
I think some problems related to atari are because of a slight flaw in it's policy training (the loss function), which makes it blind to certain contact moves. Unlike AGZ and (presumably) most other bots, it also expects the net to tell illegal moves from legal ones, which it gets wrong sometimes.
Author:  drmwc [ Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Leela Zero is amazing. I have zero chance in a 2 stone games. In a three stone game, it's close to a fair fight.

It is also unclear to me that optimising on even games gives weights the are optimal for handicap games. However, it does seem to have resulted in a machine that is amazing at handicap as well as even.

I'll be interested in how it evolves from here - if further weight optimisation will help make it noticably stronger than now.
Author:  Gomoto [ Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
@drmwc ... and also an example: european 4 dan is a force to be reckoned with :shock:
:D

What kind of hardware are you using drmwc by the way?
Author:  drmwc [ Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
A Ryzen 8-core processor, with an Nividia 1080ti.
Author:  as0770 [ Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
drmwc wrote:
Leela Zero is amazing. I have zero chance in a 2 stone games. In a three stone game, it's close to a fair fight.

It is also unclear to me that optimising on even games gives weights the are optimal for handicap games. However, it does seem to have resulted in a machine that is amazing at handicap as well as even.

I'll be interested in how it evolves from here - if further weight optimisation will help make it noticably stronger than now.


How are your experiences with other bots? Original Leela? AQ? Rn?
Author:  sorin [ Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Other than being stronger than all other free bots, I find LZ better for two other reasons:

    1. even with time-limits set, it plays fast when confident (as opposed to waiting the full time to play an obvious move which is very frustrating)
    2. the variations it gives are long, and even deeper moves make sense - while AQ has very short variations, and Leela 11's moves deeper in the variations are just noise, one can only trust the first few moves shown.
Author:  hydrogenpi7 [ Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
So it had a 256*20 version of Leela Zero that just hit about 10000 ELO today.
Author:  ez4u [ Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
It seems the regular project moved from 128x10 to 192x15 today (March 9th). This resulted in an immediate jump of about 340 points in the rating chart. And as I write, I can see in the list of test matches what seem to be some irregular matches between a 192x15 net and both 256x20 and 128x20 nets. These two games are incomplete right now. Oh the suspense!!! :-)

Unfortunately my old box, that has been chugging out not quite 4 games per hour (128x10) is now plodding through not quite 2 games per hour (192x15). I am not sure I want to see what happens with 256x20.
Author:  dfan [ Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
My understanding from monitoring the Github page is that while the 256x20 nets are much stronger than the recent 128x10 nets, they are not actually stronger per unit amount of clock time, because the net is slower and MCTS gets to visit fewer nodes, and that's why they haven't been officially promoted.

I'm guessing that gcp as has decided to his satisfaction that 192x15 is actually better per unit of time, or he wouldn't have promoted it. It is reassuring that it has the same performance on the graph as the old 256x20 attempts but with a significantly smaller network.
Author:  Pio2001 [ Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Hi,
Is it possible to run Leela Zero on Linux Mint Debian ?

I can't compile it because (I think) it requires "Boost 1.58.x or later", and the latest version of boost available on Mint Debian is 1.55.

The "Make" command fails with the message

"g++ -I/usr/include/openblas -I. -Wall -Wextra -pipe -O3 -g -ffast-math -flto -march=native -std=c++14 -DNDEBUG -MD -MP -c -o Network.o Network.cpp
Network.cpp:33:36: fatal error: boost/spirit/home/x3.hpp: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type"
[In English : No file or directory of this type].
Author:  dfan [ Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Is there really no way to install Boost later than 1.55 (from 2013) on Mint? The current version of Boost is 1.67 and even 1.58 is three years old. Is there a technical issue or has no one packaged up a new version for five years?
Author:  Pio2001 [ Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
I don't know. I don't even know what are these packages, even less how and where they are installed.
What I can do is installing or removing them using either the Software manager or the Synaptic manager.

What I can see after a Google search :

My Linux is LMDE 2 (Linux Mint Debian Edition) and is currently based on the "Jessie" version of Debian.
An upgrade to the "Stretch" version of Debian is on its way.
https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3555

Debian "Jessie" is associated with version 1.55 of Boost-defaults.
Debian "Stretch" is associated with version 1.62 of Boost-defaults.
libboost-dev & libboost-program-options-dev are "dependancies" of Boost-defaults.
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/libboost-dev

I don't know if it is possible to manually uninstall Boost 1.55 and reinstall Boost 1.62, but since I don"t know what I am doing, I'd take the following sentence, from the above link, as a warning for me not to mess everything up : "This package is a dependency package, which depends on Debian's default Boost version (currently 1.55)" ["currently" means Jessie]

I guess I'll have to wait 2 or 3 months, until Linux Mint is updated. Once the new version is out, I should automatically get version 1.62 of Boost.
Author:  dfan [ Tue May 01, 2018 5:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Leela Zero
Boost is a set of general-purpose C++ libraries. Many C++ programs use it but I'm not sure how Leela Zero uses it exactly.

I can see by googling for "leela zero mint" that people have had issues building on Mint but at least some of those issues have been resolved. I don't know if they have newer versions than you, though. You could try asking on the Leela Zero issues page.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/