Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/ |
|
KataGo self-play games + video reviews http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17217 |
Page 5 of 9 |
Author: | Maharani [ Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:06 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
Game 45 (7 komi, NZ rules) is our first game with an early (move 3) 3-3 invasion, soon followed by a second one that develops similarly. A very complicated game - and another tie. Our current tally is 10 black wins, 15 ties and 20 white wins. https://online-go.com/review/625577 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
No interest in these games whatsoever... Not on the OGS forums, either, nor on Reddit. Do y'all think there's another place where people might be interested? |
Author: | lightvector [ Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
I guess it's a lot to keep up with, particularly when the level of play is so high as to be beyond the casual viewer. The occasional videos are still cool, particularly when there's human-digestible insights about specific moves and such. If I had more time personally, I'd dive into a lot more of other fun stuff myself too: * How has the frequency of different joseki preferences and opening raw policy changed across time over the course of a run? * Pick a bunch of example positions in the middle of joseki or joseki-like sequences and a bunch of configurations for the surrounding corners. Are there positions where the choice depends greatly on the neighboring corners a lot, and are there human-understandable patterns to it? * Are there easily-calculable metrics by which pure-AI-selfplay games are extremely strikingly different than human games? * Between KataGo, LZ, ELF, MiniGo, etc, where are the largest differences between their preferences for various moves, that aren't simply revealable as a mistake? * How often does KataGo's preference for a move clearly change as a function of the komi putting it ahead versus behind? * If it's possible to obtain a large SGF joseki dictionary to just run analysis over - are there any josekis where a really surprising move is recommended that people haven't yet seen before? etc. |
Author: | Maharani [ Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:41 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
In game 46 (7 komi, NZ rules), white builds a 40-point lower side territory while black gets three and a half corners. This game is our sixteenth tie. https://online-go.com/demo/view/632201 .sgf:
|
Author: | ez4u [ Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
Maharani wrote: No interest in these games whatsoever... Not on the OGS forums, either, nor on Reddit. Do y'all think there's another place where people might be interested? I am not sure why you expect people to be interested. These are katago self-play games. Why should people find that interesting? Anyone with a PC can generate their own or download millions from the katago site. The depth of analysis is impressive but, what are the take aways? What are the lessons offered to the reader? How does the evaluation change as the playouts increase and what is the significance? Correct me if I am wrong but, I think you only included analysis in the OP. Since then, you only posted bare sgf's. |
Author: | Maharani [ Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:01 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
ez4u wrote: Correct me if I am wrong but, I think you only included analysis in the OP. Since then, you only posted bare sgf's. I've always posted short descriptions, and five games have been commented on by dan players who seemed to enjoy going through the games. Basically all I'm looking for are more dan players interested to skim through some games and comment on a few moves. |
Author: | Maharani [ Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:33 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
Game 47 (7 komi, NZ rules) sees black spending four moves to surround white's 4-4 stone by move 21. Of course, that stone ends up living, anyway. Black itself makes six living groups. After it realizes that white is gonna win by 2 points, black starts wasting ko threats and white wins by at least 12 points. https://online-go.com/demo/view/638422 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
Here's an OGS demo board with all of the fuseki I've explored in my KataGo high-playout (NZ rules, 7 komi) games so far. Included are all branching moves up to game move 36 in which (the amount of playouts for a branching move) divided by (the percentage point difference in winrate between that branching move and KataGo's favourite move) was at least ~ 6 million (don't ask, I'm neurotic). https://online-go.com/demo/view/646694 |
Author: | Maharani [ Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:24 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
Game 48 (7 komi, NZ rules) was a complicated game with fighting all over the place. Black starts wasting ko threats near the end and loses by at least 12 points. https://online-go.com/review/646658 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:13 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
In game 49 (7 komi, NZ rules) black develops a large right side in exchange for its lower-right corner. Even more trading occurs later on. You know the gist by now - another beautifully balanced tie. https://online-go.com/demo/view/651112 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Tue May 04, 2021 1:20 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
Game 50 (7 komi, NZ rules) sees black getting two large corners plus two living center groups. Of course it's a tie. Our tally currently stands at 10 black wins, 18 ties and 22 white wins. https://online-go.com/review/658057 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Thu May 13, 2021 7:01 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
Game 51 (7 komi, NZ rules) focuses mostly around complicated center fighting. https://online-go.com/review/664786 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
Maharani wrote: Game 51 (7 komi, NZ rules) focuses mostly around complicated center fighting. https://online-go.com/review/664786 .sgf: Antti Törmänen, JPN 1p has reviewed this game! https://www.nordicgodojo.eu/post/848/ka ... selfplay-2 I've updated the .sgf above, with some additional comments by Clydevil ~2d. |
Author: | Maharani [ Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:34 pm ] | ||||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||||
Game 52 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another tie: https://online-go.com/review/670516 .sgf: Game 53 (7 komi, NZ rules) was our first game with a taisha variation (won by white): https://online-go.com/review/676958 .sgf: Game 54 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another tie, bringing our current tally to 10 black wins, 21 ties and 23 white wins: https://online-go.com/review/680593 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:03 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
Game 55 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another absolutely riveting game, with giant territories on both sides, which as a human, I love to see: https://online-go.com/demo/view/688006 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
Maharani wrote: In game 49 (7 komi, NZ rules) black develops a large right side in exchange for its lower-right corner. Even more trading occurs later on. You know the gist by now - another beautifully balanced tie. https://online-go.com/demo/view/651112 .sgf: Anton Christenson, EGF 3d did a 67-minute YouTube review of this game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfv-zgFAIAo I’ve added all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, to the OGS review as well. I've also added more high-playout KataGo variations to the game reviewed by Antti Törmänen, JPN 1p. |
Author: | Maharani [ Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:14 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||
Can white save its center dragon in game 56 (7 komi, NZ rules) to secure a win? https://online-go.com/review/696161 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:49 pm ] | ||||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||||
Game 57 (7 komi, NZ rules) ended up as a draw where everything lived pretty much how you'd have expected around move 150, but don't let that fool you. For a while, some insane trades were on the table, as reflected by the score chart... https://online-go.com/review/704031 .sgf: Game 58 (7 komi, NZ rules) in which black develops a huge center moyo is beautiful IMO. Notable moves: 57 - So cool. 182 - After playing this move, KataGo realized that white was winning by 2 points. Black casually wastes some ko threats and ends up losing by 4 points. https://online-go.com/review/709402 .sgf: In game 59 (7 komi, NZ rules), the lower-right looks almost like a "joseki" in that moves 13 - 43 are almost throughout the same moves favoured by the policy network. On the board, it looks intricately balanced too. So cool. M8 seems to finish the position. https://online-go.com/demo/view/717111 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:25 pm ] | ||||
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games | ||||
Black loses game 60 (7 komi, NZ rules) despite capturing a large white group by move 133. https://online-go.com/review/722242 .sgf: Game 61 (7 komi, NZ rules) starts out with a complex bottom-right fight that eventually spills into the center. https://online-go.com/review/725546 .sgf: The opening of game 62 (7 komi, NZ rules) looks so alien and yet beautifully balanced. By move 112, black has at least a 20-plus-points lead in solid territory (diagram below by Clydevil, ~2d). Move 120 is a casual 7th-line shoulder hit. At move 186, white is about 16 points ahead. I think around move 145 is where black starts wasting ko threats. https://online-go.com/demo/view/730096 .sgf:
|
Author: | Maharani [ Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games |
Maharani wrote: Game 55 (7 komi, NZ rules) was another absolutely riveting game, with giant territories on both sides, which as a human, I love to see: https://online-go.com/demo/view/688006 .sgf: Anton Christenson, EGF 3d did a 45-minute YouTube review of this game! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqGcwLnngGY I’ve added all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, to the OGS review as well. |
Page 5 of 9 | All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] |
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |