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 Post subject: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #1 Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:26 am 
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are there any such programs?

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #2 Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:55 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #3 Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Just for fun, a version of KataGo that should work for larger board sizes: :)

https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo/r ... 3.5%2Bbs29


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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #4 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:32 am 
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KataGo works very well on large boards indeed: I'm 1k KGS and was crushed on 25x25 by KataGo (1000 visits IIRC) despite 13 stones of handicap... ;-(((. But I won with 17 stones ;-)

Note: KataGo is not trained at all on boards above 19x19, the selfplay is done on all board sizes between 7x7 and 19x19 (with few games on small boards and more on 19x19), and no games above, but it seems it can extrapolate well up to at least 25x25 and apparently quite well up to 29x29. If you compile it by yourself, it can play up to 37x37 (but unsure if it still extrapolates well or if the level of play is drastically weaker).


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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #5 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:07 am 
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Friday9i I will be very grateful if you compile the version up 37x37! I will do any tests for you!
who can it, make a version up to 37x37!!!
Please :)

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #6 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:41 am 
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Friday9i wrote:
KataGo works very well on large boards indeed: I'm 1k KGS and was crushed on 25x25 by KataGo (1000 visits IIRC) despite 13 stones of handicap... ;-(((. But I won with 17 stones ;-)

Note: KataGo is not trained at all on boards above 19x19, the selfplay is done on all board sizes between 7x7 and 19x19 (with few games on small boards and more on 19x19), and no games above, but it seems it can extrapolate well up to at least 25x25 and apparently quite well up to 29x29. If you compile it by yourself, it can play up to 37x37 (but unsure if it still extrapolates well or if the level of play is drastically weaker).

which network did you use? and what GUI?

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #7 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:09 am 
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The new version of q5go 1.1 works great on 29x29!
https://github.com/bernds/q5Go/releases/

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #8 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:48 am 
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And wrote:
Friday9i I will be very grateful if you compile the version up 37x37! I will do any tests for you!
who can it, make a version up to 37x37!!!
Please :)

Unfortunately I did not manage to compile it when I tried a few months ago... So, no, I cannot help, sorry :-(

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #9 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:34 am 
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Friday9i Have you tried compiling this version?
https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo/r ... 3.5%2Bbs29

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #10 Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:55 pm 
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Sabaki opens sgf large boards, auto replay works
July KGS+ Crazy Boardsizes tournament : 37x37 the Insane Division
https://www.gokgs.com/tournGames.jsp?id=739&round=1
http://files.gokgs.com/games/2012/7/14/ ... -NeroX.sgf


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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #11 Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:51 pm 
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Well, maybe. SGF has long supported large board sizes, so any full-featured GUI that simply conforms to the spec may have no problem opening big board game records. It's GTP (the basically universally used bot<->GUI protocol) that is the issue and that if you conform to the spec, only goes up to 25x25.

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #12 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:00 am 
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Friday9i Do you have plans to make a network trained on boards up to 29x29? maybe she will play in a completely different way? and if there is such a network, maybe lightvector will release a KataGo up to 37x37?

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #13 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:21 am 
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who wants to save q5go (up to 29x29) game and then view sgf without errors - in sgf in a text editor, you need to replace "{", "|", "}" with "A", "B", "C". The resulting sgf opens without errors in MultiGo, CGoban, and Sabaki!
with AkelPad it took me less than a minute http://akelpad.sourceforge.net/en/index.php

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #14 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:44 am 
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And wrote:
Friday9i Do you have plans to make a network trained on boards up to 29x29? maybe she will play in a completely different way? and if there is such a network, maybe lightvector will release a KataGo up to 37x37?

It would very probably take a lot of time and many GPUs: current KataGo's net trained by lightvector is extremely strong up to 19x19 (significantly stronger than LZ now) and apparently very strong up to 25x25 and probably up to 29x29 or more: it's very probable that taking the same GPU power to train a net on sizes from 7x7 to 29x29 than the time he used from 7x7 to 19x19 would lead to a net better on large board sizes (and unclear for smaller sizes, probably weaker due to the much longer time to generate selfplay). But it's months of training with many GPUs, so clearly not easily feasible ;-(.
The best hope is if there is a collaborative project using KataGo and training on sizes from small boards to (very) large boards, and if possible on rectangular boards too :-). We'll see!

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #15 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:56 am 
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I don’t know how good the last nets are on big boards. there is nothing to compare. you play stronger than me. Your opinion about the game of these networks on 25x25 - 29x29 is very interesting!

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #16 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:39 am 
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new version q5go https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=255994#p255994
downloads and saves SGF files games up to 52x52!

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #17 Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:19 pm 
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on large boards (25 - 29) is it probably better to put handicap stones differently?

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #18 Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:01 am 
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how strong is the KataGo game level at 27x27 and 29x29?

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #19 Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:41 am 
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Friday9i, Could you upload your games on large boards?

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 Post subject: Re: Game programs for boards more than 19x19
Post #20 Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:07 am 
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who plays on large boards 21x21 - 29x29, write your reviews, remarks, observations. what is interesting that is not on 19x19?

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