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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #21 Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:48 pm 
Oza
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Bill Spight wrote:
Dragon wrote:
Imagine that 19x19 is solved. What do you think, KataGo (the best network, by default) makes the best move 1 time out of 5? out of 10? maybe a difficult question, but your opinion is interesting :)


Well, if 19x19 go is solved, how was it solved? Surely by the best network...


Isn't this a step too far? How would any net "solve" Go? I thought that the magic of nets is that they are able to play as strongly as they can despite (because?) being non-deterministic. So how will you ever be able to determine that you have solved Go if you are using a net?

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #22 Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:33 pm 
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I meant to imagine, assume that go 19x19 solved

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #23 Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:43 pm 
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ez4u wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Dragon wrote:
Imagine that 19x19 is solved. What do you think, KataGo (the best network, by default) makes the best move 1 time out of 5? out of 10? maybe a difficult question, but your opinion is interesting :)


Well, if 19x19 go is solved, how was it solved? Surely by the best network...


Isn't this a step too far? How would any net "solve" Go? I thought that the magic of nets is that they are able to play as strongly as they can despite (because?) being non-deterministic. So how will you ever be able to determine that you have solved Go if you are using a net?


I assumed that by "best network" Dragon meant the best program. I guess I should have said, "best program", myself.

What shape future programs will take, who knows? I doubt if 19x19 go will ever be solved, anyway. However, if it is, and however it may be solved, the solution can be checked with a weaker program than that solved it.

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #24 Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:00 pm 
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I believe that go can be resolved. and not only 19x19. modern programs learn the "network". neural network (?). If someone comes up with a program that will learn and change themselves! then I’m pretty sure that after a while she will solve go! and provide a solution and evidence :tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #25 Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:50 pm 
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KataGo - first place!
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/13x13/standings.html
http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/standings.html


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #26 Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 2:12 am 
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Finally got round to installing the new version, after genconfig it's twice as fast as before (probably I didn't tune / adjust numthreads before), nice!


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #27 Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:45 am 
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Can someone please hint me - how can I play it 13x13 or 9x9 - I'm using Sabaki. Different command line and obviously different neural net files? Thx

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #28 Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:47 am 
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Have you tried just changing the board size in sabaki?

KataGo uses one neural net for all sizes.


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #29 Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:55 am 
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lightvector wrote:
Have you tried just changing the board size in sabaki?
KataGo uses one neural net for all sizes.
I have tried meanwhile, oh, I was not expecting it to be that simple - thank you :-)


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #30 Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 5:29 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Finally got round to installing the new version, after genconfig it's twice as fast as before (probably I didn't tune / adjust numthreads before), nice!

i dont know if its a coincidence, but the 40b speed has improved alot on the webapp version too!
https://katago-gui.herokuapp.com/static ... obile.html
For me, this means I can play a quick game anytime on my eink ereader/real board

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #31 Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:12 am 
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here http://rusgo.org/2020/04/29/leela-zero-vs-katago/ talking about 40x384 network. Is she learning or has she failed?

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #32 Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:22 pm 
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Kim Yoonyoung 8p (https://www.twitch.tv/kimyoonyoung) is playing a variable handicap series against KataGo running on beefy V100 hardware. She lost 2 games on 2 stones and 6.5 reverse komi and just now one on 3 stones, the "this group won't die" died after a very nice not working ladder KataGo played out to get some helper stones in sente. 2nd 3 stone starting now.

Edit: she won the 2nd on 3 stones by 8.5 points.


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #33 Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 6:40 am 
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can these games be downloaded in sgf?

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #34 Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 8:32 am 
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And wrote:
can these games be downloaded in sgf?
Here are the games: https://online-go.com/player/787607/


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #35 Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:11 am 
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KG 1.4.2 g170-b20c256x2-s4384473088-d968438914
v.
KG 1.4.2 g170e-b20c256x2-s5055114240-d1149032340 (new experimental net from https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo/releases/tag/v1.4.2-nets)

30 games, 1s/move, gpu : 1x GTX1080, gogui-twogtp 1.5.1

The new net wins 19-11 (25 games by resignation, 5 games W+0.5 or B+0.5, no error, no duplicate game)
Attachment:
1.jpg
1.jpg [ 210.97 KiB | Viewed 1100 times ]
Attachment:
2.jpg
2.jpg [ 542.3 KiB | Viewed 1100 times ]


PS. In another 30 game test between these two nets, the score was 16-14, but I had forgotten to use -alternate, so the new net was 30 times W... :sad:


Last edited by Vargo on Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #36 Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:22 am 
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would now be made 30 times black, there would be 60 games :)


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #37 Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:28 pm 
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KG 1.4.2 g170-b20c256x2-s4384473088-d968438914
v.
KG 1.4.2 g170e-b20c256x2-s5055114240-d1149032340 (new experimental net from https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo/r ... 1.4.2-nets)

After 60 more games (total of 90 games, each side 45 times B, 1s/move, 1x GTX1080)
The new net wins 50-40 (55.6%)

---------------------------------------

30 games between
KG 1.4.2 g170-b40c256x2-s4679779328-d1149909226 (new experimental)
and
KG 1.4.2 g170-b40c256x2-s3708042240-d967973220

The new net wins 16-14 , 22 games by resignation and 8 games(!) W+0.5 or B+0.5

1s/move, 1x GTX1080, GoGui-TwoGtp 1.5.1, no error, no duplicate game


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #38 Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:13 am 
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KG 1.4.2 g170-b30c320x2-s3530176512-d968463914
v.
KG 1.4.2 g170-b30c320x2-s4432082944-d1149895217 (new experimental net)

50 games, 1s/move, 1x GTX1080
The experimental net wins 28-22 (42 games by resignation, 7 games B+0.5 or W+0.5 and 1 game by 1.5)
Attachment:
30_1.jpg
30_1.jpg [ 198.54 KiB | Viewed 985 times ]
Attachment:
30_2.jpg
30_2.jpg [ 787.19 KiB | Viewed 985 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #39 Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:27 am 
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new experimental nets 20b, 30b, 40b (from https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo/releases/tag/v1.4.2-nets)
50 game tests, TwoGtp 1.5.1, 1s/move, gpu : 1x GTX 1080

g170e-b20c256x2-s5055114240-d1149032340 v. g170-b30c320x2-s4432082944-d1149895217
20b wins 31-19 (62%) No error, no duplicate, 43 games by resignation, 7 games B+0.5 or W+0.5

g170e-b20c256x2-s5055114240-d1149032340 v. g170-b40c256x2-s4679779328-d1149909226
20b wins 29-21 (58%) No error, no duplicate, 41 games by resignation, 9 games B+0.5 or W+0.5

g170-b30c320x2-s4432082944-d1149895217 v. g170-b40c256x2-s4679779328-d1149909226
30b wins 26-24 (52%) No error, no duplicate, 45 games by resignation, 5 games B+0.5 or W+0.5

On this PC, with 1x GTX1080
1s/move corresponds to maxVisits =~ 700-800 for g170e-b20c256x2-s5055114240-d1149032340
Attachment:
2030.jpg
2030.jpg [ 237.23 KiB | Viewed 894 times ]
Attachment:
2040.jpg
2040.jpg [ 226.73 KiB | Viewed 894 times ]
Attachment:
3040.jpg
3040.jpg [ 196.68 KiB | Viewed 894 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: KataGo v1.4
Post #40 Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:39 am 
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Is there anyway to play the nonzero version of katago on ogs? Thanks for the test matches!

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